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Fritz,<br><br>As specialist in biblical translations you must be aware on many biblical names<br>that made such categories:<br><br>Solomon - wise man<br>David - wise king<br>Jonathan - good friend<br>Ruth - true proselite<br>Esther - beautiful patriot<br>Elija - maker miracles<br><br>Also couple of names from the New Testament (I do not touch divinities)<br>Like Mary of Magdala (Magdalene), Lazar, good Samaritan, etc.<br><br>Hayim<br><br><b><i>Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@sil.org></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <!-- Network content --> </div><div class="Section1">
<div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">Hayim</span></font>,<o></o></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">I appreciate your contributions which are always enriching. Let me comment on a few of your examples below.<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Beracha,<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Fritz<o></o></span></font></div> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id="ygrp-msg"> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Fritz,<br> <br> I think, Hercules is good example, at least in English and Russian, I do not know if he is proverbial in other languages. <font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Also in German.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I understand your suggestion of Penelope (she is all what you said indeed),
but it seems that she didn't rise to the level of Xanthippe or Hercules in popular usage.<font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Good point if you make that distinction. That is what I am after: examples of where you can say “he/she is a X”.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> One can say in that case a name “has made it,” also into the dictionary. Taking Penelope’s husband Ulysses (Odysseus)<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> as another example of your point. I don’t think he has quite made it either. Although famous I don’t think one would hear
“he is a <o></o></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Ulysses”, rather “he is wily as U./ he is a fox like Ulysses.”<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br> There is a parallel to Hercules - Gargantua (maybe it is Gargantois?) from<br> G. et Panagruel by Rables, also Martin Eaden from Jack London's book and maybe several characters of Moliere<font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Like Tartuffe.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">, John Falstaff and Shylock of Shakespeare.<br> In Russian language there are several proverbial names taken from the works of
Fonvizin (von Wizin), Griboedov, Gogol, Saltykov-Stchedrin and Chekhov. (Prostakova [stupid, ignorant lady], Svinyin, [idiot squire] Scalozub [epidemy of conservatism and cretinism], Manilov [fruitless dreamer], Nozdryov [opposite to comme il faut], Sabakevich [owner of manor of heavy type, likes! big and strong things and suspects that everybody deceives him], Korobochka (resourceful mistress of the house), Derzhimorda, Unter Prishibeev(tipes of brute policeman) Each of these name describe a large negative category of people. <font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Has Raskolnikow made it? Or Myshkin (a lovable character) from Dostoyesky’s “The Idiot”?<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br> Also from the time of sentimentalism one
of characters of a novelette by Karamzin (Poor Liza) describe a category of abandoned brides.<br> There is entire gallery of characters in Russian literature of the 19th cent. that<br> illustrates the idea of "unnessessary people." They are people who received good education, had all opportunity of employment or independent creative work, but on different reasons do not contribute anything. One of this characters Oblomov is a proverbial figure for "far niente"(Ital.<wbr>). The person lays on the coach and does nothing. (This is not depression).<br> Don Juan (philander), <font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Widely known in other languages, like Casanova.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Salieri (sounds bad in Russian, as
enemy of the genius and bad composer)<font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Too bad that this guy’s name made it.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">. Paganini is proverbial for violin virtuoso. Savonarola, Macchiavelli! are also describing categories. Jesuite in Russian describe a negative type of person (not necessary connected to religion) <br> There is a name for the critic who criticizes harshly any work of art and literature whatever its merits (Zoil, probably taken from Greek culture), Herodot is a proverbial historian, Cicero is a proverbial orator, Caesar is a type of person that can perform several acts contemporaneously<font color="black"><span style="color:
black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> I heard this said of Napoleon.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">. In American English name MacKey describes probably a strong and decisive macho type. There is expression, "he is real MacKey"(I am not sure in spelling, this could be McKay)<font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> I’d be interested in knowing where this comes from.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Of course there are much more such names, but it is enough for one email message. The title or profession "doctor" (one who knows
everything). <font color="black"><span style="color: black;"> <o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"> Maybe we leave those examples out for another thread.<o></o></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">In <st1><st1>Israel</st1></st1> there is a name for one who changed his political party. I forgot his name (it seems to me, Korodo), but this was the first time when it occurred in the country. This Korodo wasn't important politician. But when Moshe Dayyan did<br> the same, everybody cited the case of Korodo as the type. They even invented term Korodism for this type of behavior. <font color="black"><span style="color: black;"><o></o></span></font></span></font></div> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hayim Sheynin<br> <br> <b><i><span
style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o></span></font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 1.5pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><!-- Network content --><!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id="ygrp-msg"> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: black;">Hayim,<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: black;">How about a Penelope figure,</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"> </span></font><font color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: black;">a faithful wife who waits patiently for! her husband to return? On the male side: someone is a Hercules. <o></o></span></font><o></o></div>
</div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Fritz<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div><st1> </st1><div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Hayim Sheynin asked: <o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br> What other names of wives of famous men can be a characteristic of a category?<br> <br> Hayim<br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o></span></font></div> </div> <o></o> <blockquote style="border-left: 1.5pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;
font-family: Arial; color: black;">In some languages the names of wives of famous men have entered the language<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> <o></o></div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">to characterize a certain kind of woman: like Xanthippe (Socrates’wife) is used in English and German.<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> <o></o></div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font><o></o></div> <o></o></div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Fritz<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> <o></o></div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span
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