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<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
14.0pt'>Hayim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks for the examples from the Bible.
Sorry to say, but for me none of those persons made it to become a category.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>All of them have positive outstanding
personality traits  but also weaknesses like David and Solomon. I would
not say “he is a Solomon”, but “he made a solomonic decision”.
I might say “he has faith like Elijah” but the same prophet showed
weaknesses in the biblical account. That is what I like about the Bible, the
realism.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Names that become characteristic of a
category are often caricatures of persons created by writers, like those who
you mentioned from Russian literature.  I can think of Scrooge from English
literature.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Of historical figures sometimes an
adjective is formed like macchiavellian, napoleonic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Greetings, Fritz<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fritz,<br>
<br>
As specialist in biblical translations you must be aware on many biblical names<br>
that made such categories:<br>
<br>
Solomon - wise man<br>
David - wise king<br>
Jonathan - good friend<br>
Ruth - true proselite<br>
Esther - beautiful patriot<br>
Elija - maker miracles<br>
<br>
Also couple of names from the New Testament (I do not touch divinities)<br>
Like Mary of Magdala (Magdalene), Lazar, good Samaritan, etc.<br>
<br>
Hayim<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Fritz Goerling
<Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
14.0pt'>Hayim</span></font>,<o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I appreciate your contributions which are
always enriching. Let me comment on a few of your examples below.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Beracha,<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-family!
 : Arial'><o><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </o></span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Fritz<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Fritz,<br>
<br>
I think, Hercules  is good example, at least  in  English and
Russian, I do not know  if  he is  proverbial  in other languages. 
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>     Also in German.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I understand your suggestion  of Penelope (she is all what you
said indeed), but  it seems that she didn't rise to the level of Xanthippe
or Hercules in popular usage.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<o></o>

<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>    Good point if you make
that distinction. That is what I am after: examples of where you can say
“he/she is a X”.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<div>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>    One can say in that
case a name “has made it,” also into the dictionary. Taking
Penelope’s husband Ulysses (Odysseus)<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>    as another example of
your point. I don’t think he has quite made it either. Although famous I
don’t think one would hear “he is a <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   Ulysses”, rather
“he is wily as U./ he is a fox like Ulysses.”<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
There is a parallel to Hercules - Gargantua (maybe it is Gargantois?) from<br>
G. et Panagruel by Rables, also Martin Eaden from Jack London's book and maybe
several characters of Moliere<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   Like Tartuffe.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>, John Falstaff and Shylock of Shakespeare.<br>
In Russian language there are several proverbial names taken from the works of
Fonvizin (von Wizin), Griboedov, Gogol, Saltykov-Stchedrin and Chekhov.
(Prostakova [stupid, ignorant lady], Svinyin, [idiot squire] Scalozub [epidemy
of conservatism and cretinism], Manilov [fruitless dreamer], Nozdryov [opposite
to comme il faut], Sabakevich [owner of manor of heavy type, likes! big and
strong things and suspects that everybody deceives him], Korobochka
(resourceful mistress of the house), Derzhimorda, Unter Prishibeev(tipes of
brute policeman) Each of these name describe a large negative category of
people. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   Has Raskolnikow made it? Or
Myshkin (a lovable character) from Dostoyesky’s “The Idiot”?<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
Also from the time of sentimentalism one of characters of a novelette by
Karamzin (Poor Liza) describe a category of abandoned brides.<br>
There is entire gallery of characters in Russian literature of the 19th cent.
that<br>
illustrates the idea of "unnessessary people." They are people who
received good education, had all opportunity of employment or independent
creative work, but on different reasons do not contribute anything. One of this
characters Oblomov is a proverbial figure for "far niente"(Ital.<wbr>).
The person lays on the coach and does nothing. (This is not depression).<br>
Don Juan (philander), <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>    Widely known in other
languages, like Casanova.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Salieri (sounds bad in Russian, as enemy of the genius and bad composer)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>    Too bad that this
guy’s name made it.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>. Paganini is proverbial for violin virtuoso. Savonarola, Macchiavelli!
are also describing categories. Jesuite in Russian describe  a
negative  type of person  (not necessary  connected to religion)
<br>
There is a name for the critic who criticizes harshly any work of art and
literature whatever its merits (Zoil, probably taken from Greek culture),
Herodot is a proverbial historian, Cicero is a proverbial orator, Caesar is a
type of person that can perform several acts contemporaneously<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   I heard this said of
Napoleon.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>. In American English name MacKey describes probably a strong and
decisive macho type. There is expression, "he is real MacKey"(I am
not sure in spelling, this could be McKay)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   I’d be interested in
knowing where this comes from.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Of course there are much more such names, but it is enough for one
email message. The title or profession "doctor" (one who knows
everything). <font color=black><span style='color:black'> <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   Maybe we leave those
examples out for another thread.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In <st1><st1><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Israel</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:country-region>
there is a name for one who changed his political party. I forgot his name (it
seems to me, Korodo), but this was the first time when it occurred in the
country. This Korodo wasn't important politician. But when Moshe Dayyan did<br>
the same, everybody cited the case of Korodo as the type. They even invented
term  Korodism for this type of behavior. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hayim Sheynin<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='fon!
 t-weight: bold'><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></span></i></b>
wrote:<o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'>Hayim,<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'>How about a Penelope figure,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:black'>a faithful wife who
waits patiently for! her husband to return? On the male side: someone is a
Hercules. <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Fritz<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Hayim Sheynin asked: <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
What other names of wives of famous men can be a characteristic of a category?<br>
<br>
Hayim<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Fritz Goerling
<Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<o></o>

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 ly: Arial'>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In some languages the names of wives of
famous men have entered the language<o></o></span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>to characterize a certain kind of woman:
like Xanthippe (Socrates’wife) is used in English and German.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Fritz<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></o></div>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font!
 -family: Arial'><o><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </o></span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<o></!  o></div>

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<o></o>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o></o><o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o> </o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>

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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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        <tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkY3Bjc3M1BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTc0NzQyODc3?t=ms&k=Life+science+research&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=Iijeys-hhXush45nkHI1fw">Life science research</a></tt>
      </td>
                      <td style="width:25%;">
        <tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkb24xMTlwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTc0NzQyODc3?t=ms&k=Life+sciences&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=BzQVPANazGzLMf63F0AEwA">Life sciences</a></tt>
      </td>
              </tr>
                        <tr valign=top>
            <td style="width:25%;">
        <tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNm5jMGJtBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzQEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTc0NzQyODc3?t=ms&k=Life+science+product&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=Zt0u9C_2RYCHGrro11mmsA">Life science product</a></tt>
      </td>
                      <td style="width:25%;">
        <tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkaDA5bDVxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzUEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTc0NzQyODc3?t=ms&k=Life+science+company&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=4SCAy6h9Eoo0zrSnqnWSeg">Life science company</a></tt>
      </td>
                    </tr>
      </table>     
  
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