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Dear Scott,<br><br>I praise your intentions, but ask yourself how many people learn English from a<br>dictionary. I think there is no alternative for learning English vocabulary, but from<br>reading the text and practicing conversation. I myself passed this process as well as people around me. The only use of dictionary for learning English as second or third language is to look for 1) meaning; 2) spelling; 3) pronunciation; 4) idioms.<br>The simpler structure of a dictionary, the easier its use. Think well, is it worth to invest time and effort for frequency-listing & attending-words/phrases listing (lexical inclusion).<br><br>Another thing completely is a frequency dictionary. Those are used mostly by teachers of ESL. These kind of dictionary is suited for direct instruction. First beginners learn 100 most frequent words, then 1,000 most frequent words, then 3,000 most frequent words, etc., etc. But even in this kind of instruction the words are not learned from the
dictionary. A teacher uses text constructed with these words, and the words are learned in the context, using a vocabulary that usually placed at the end of a reader, text-book or anthology. When vocabulary reaches 5,000 to 6,000, the learner needs separate dictionary. In most of the cases the learner continue to use bilingual dictionary, like English-Spanish/ Spanish-English; English-Russian/Russian-English, etc., etc.<br>Probably there is a need for the type of dictionary you propose, but the audience<br>for such dictionary is different from that you envision, for example for translators of advertisement, translators or creators of titles/captions for foreign movies and similar projects. Such people frequently need to know what is the most frequent word from two or three synonyms, so for them frequency rating might be important.<br><br>Hayim Y. Sheynin <br><br><b><i>bolstar1 <bolstar1@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px
solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div>Case for frequency-listing & attending-words/<wbr>phrases listing (lexical <br> inclusion) <br> <br> Imagine a person learning, say, English, and randomly picking the <br> word `bilious' out of a thesaurus for a term with the meaning <br> irritable, grouchy, or ornery, and using it in the next conversation <br> with a native speaker. The native speaker might learn a new word for <br> the effort-*, and even get a chuckle for the day out of it, but it <br> would have been far more practical for the learner to <br> learn `irritable' or `spiteful, or `hyper-touchy.<wbr>' <br> I'd like to proffer, or more
accurately, add to, the argument for <br> including frequency ratings to lexical entries, both dictionaries and <br> thesauruses. Although this would require considerable thought, <br> organization, and conference-activity in the lexicographical <br> community to establish well-grounded and widely acceptable "norms," <br> it would seem to offer great benefits for the effort. <br> For the sake of economy of space, as well as for fine-tuning <br> leverage, a numbering scale (1-10) could be employed. Short and <br> easily distinguished from other information, the ranking would give <br> the searcher an idea of how much weight to give to any particular <br> term (main entry). It could be listed immediately after the <br> pronunciation guide (for general usage) or after the field/context <br> identifier (for jargon-related terms). Both main entries and synonyms <br> used in defining them (synonyms themselves in thesauruses) "could be" <br> ranked. Whether the entries are
identified as unique to a particular <br> a field, activity, etc. (jargon related) or generally used (common <br> vernacular), the result would be a broadening of the `usage' category <br> without adding an inordinate amount of space to it. <br> For example, under `angry'/'anger' the entry could read as <br> follows, with rank designated "r.": <br> <br> an∙gry |`aeng gree| {r. 1} *adj.; (angrier, angriest) feeling strong <br> annoyance, irritation, hostility, ready to lose one's temper: I <br> get angry every time I listen to him.<br> <br> attending words/phrases: <br> angry with s…e<br> angry at s…e <br> I'm so angry I could scream. <br> I'm so angry I can't see straight. <br> walk off (leave) angry<br> <br> related phrases: <br> righteous anger <br> pent-up anger <br> filled with anger <br> bristle with anger <br> take one's anger out on someone<br> <br> Additional in importance to frequency is the use of
particles <br> attending the root word, and phrases commonly using the root. To <br> determine ranking numbers and inclusions of attending words, using <br> computational linguistics that glean frequencies would be easy and <br> straightforward -- but additional consensus-forming and vote-taking <br> among lexicographers/<wbr>linguists would refine the results. Identifying <br> and selecting the most commonly used attending words & phrases could <br> follow a similar strategy. <br> The devil would be in the details, each root word having <br> variations distinct to that word's uses in their own contexts. <br> Naturally, space limitations are a key factor in determining the <br> extent of the `attendant-words listing,' (`attending-<wbr>words listing'), <br> but it, along with frequency listing, are integral parts of learning <br> & using words correctly, and indeed phrasal and corpus focus have <br> become buzz words in linguistics, self-evident aspects of
having <br> quality lexical collations. <br> <br> Scott Nelson<br> <br> </div> </div> <!--End group email --> </blockquote><br><p>
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