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As others mentioned, the situation in Latin American Spanish is far
from uniform.<br>
<br>
When I was a child in Venezuela both tú and usted (still written Vd.)
forms were used. It was not right to address a respected older person
(unless maybe a parent, almost certainly not a grandparent) with tú
rather than usted forms.<br>
<br>
Usted is historically contracted from "vuestra merced" 'your (pl.?)
mercy/magnanimity" (hence the orthographic V in Vd.). It is much like
"Your Honor" or "Your Majesty" in
English, and 3rd person as a result, since it is the mercy, honor, or
majesty that is being overtly talked about. This means that the
possessive is the 3rd person 'su', verbs with an understood usted
subject are all inflected for 3rd person, and so forth.<br>
<br>
In Mexico, where I've lived mostly since 1970, tú is taking over in
many of the contexts where I have been, especially in
university-influenced settings. But country folk still use usted a lot
with people they respect or want to distance themselves from. <br>
<br>
(Both tú and usted are ambivalent: the former can mean intimacy but
also disdain, and the latter can mean respect but also rejection and
distancing. You can offend people easily either way, especially if for
some reason they want to be offended.) <br>
<br>
I had a Colombian student a couple of years ago, at a course in Perú,
whose preferred pronoun of address, especially for teachers but also
for her classmates, was "su merced". This was standard usage in her
town. 'Su merced' is in some sense a double honorific, since the 'su'
(originally 3p poss) implies 'possessed by usted (not tú).' La merced
de vuestra merced,' (your Honor's Honor) in effect. ('Tu merced',
however, would *really* sound funny to me, almost a contradiction in
terms.)<br>
<br>
As in English, the familiar (tú/Thou) forms are traditionally used in
prayer, in keeping with Christian doctrine that God is our Abba
(Father/Daddy?), and desires intimate communion with us. But many who
have not been strongly educated in that tradition, are likely to use
usted forms in that context, which certainly fits other Biblical
language picturing him as King, far higher above us than any earthly
rulers. This tendency to use usted particularly affects Nahuatl
speakers in Mexico whose language uses strong honorifics for Deity. I
have had someone explain to me that in the case of God, the tú forms
are really honorific, thus paralleling the switch in English speakers'
minds from thou 'familiar' to 'formal'.<br>
<br>
In both Venezuela and everywhere I have been in Mexico, the old
familiar plural (vosotros) forms are completely obsolete, occurring
only when people read foreign and usually archaic texts. When some read
the Reina Valera Bible, which uses them, they misunderstand the
vosotros pronouns as being nosotros ('we/us'), and may see the
inflected forms as singular (e.g. veis 'you pl.fam. see' as a variant
of ves 'you sg.fam. see').<br>
<br>
fwiw.<br>
<br>
--David Tuggy<br>
<br>
<br>
Hayim Sheynin wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid829691.47981.qm@web60419.mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div>Benjamin,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The case of Algerian French is easy to understand, because in
Arabic there is no dichotonomy tu/Vous. Instead there are dichotonomy 2
p.m./ 2 p.f. (anta/anti). And if they want to use a polite form, they
use an address Monseur, Chef, etc. (In Arabic Sa'idi, Sa'idati-my
master, my lady, etc.)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>However I do not know the reason of disappearance of the polite
form in Nicaraguan Spanish and if so, probably in additional Spanish
dialects of Latin America. Maybe somebody else on the list can
enlighten me.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hayim Y. Sheynin<br>
</div>
<span style="color: white;"><br>
</span></blockquote>
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