<html><body>
Rudy,<br><br>Permit me to give a couple of comments on your message.<br><br><<In Spanish there is a verb "tutear", "to use 'tu'" with someone, and there is a sociolinguistic ritual in inviting someone to "tutear" as a signal of a change in the<br> relationship.>><br><br>Apparently in old Russian and German societies there were also such ceremonies. In today Russian remained an expression "pit' na brudershaft" (to drink for brotherhood). It means if you drunk vodka with somebodu, you must relate to him as a brother, i.e. to use ty form instead Vy form.<br>The word brudershaft shows that the custom came from Germany with the German word Bruderschaft.<br> <br><<It is well known that in general, "tu" has overtaken "usted" throughout the<br> <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer; height: 1em;" id="lw_1181333558_2">Caribbean</span>, which is presumably related to the late influence from<br> Andalucia in the settlement of the
area, as there are other features such<br> as aspiration or loss of final -/s/ which are widespread in the <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 50%; cursor: pointer; height: 1em; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;" id="lw_1181333558_3">Caribbean</span><br> and reflect Andalucian features. In <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); cursor: pointer; height: 1em;" id="lw_1181333558_4">Columbia</span>, this is characteristic of<br> the coastal area. I once had a student from a remote valley of central<br> Columbia who reported that only "usted" was used there, even between her<br> parents.>><br><br>Curiously many Arabs who learn Spanish accept usted (etymologically < Vuestro merced) as an Arab loan word for usta:dh (professor). than can be pronounced as ustedh.<br>It is known that Spanish d in the final
or intervocal positions sounds as atone d.<br><br>On the whole, Rudy, you are right about Arab influence on Andalucian Spanish.<br>You can read works by Prof. Federico Coriente who wrote a lot on Andalucian <br>Arabic. Moreover it is known that Andalucian dialect was either the core base or<br>a companion dialect for the most of Latin American dialects.<br><br>However the question whether the Arabic influence in Andalucia had any historical effect on the tu/usted use there require a special study.<br><br>Hayim Sheynin<br><br><b><i>rtroike@email.arizona.edu</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div
id="ygrp-text"> <div><br> It was, I think, Steve Marlett who once told me that after working with<br> a consultant in Mexico for about 6 months, he felt sufficiently close to<br> the man to use "tu" with him, but the man was so insulted that he refused<br> to work with Steve any longer. As for Shakespeare'<wbr>s use of "thou" as a<br> verb, this was undoubtedly calqued from French. In Spanish there is a<br> verb "tutear", "to use 'tu'" with someone, and there is a sociolinguistic<br> ritual in inviting someone to "tutear" as a signal of a change in the<br> relationship.<br> <br> It is well known that in general, "tu" has overtaken "usted" throughout the<br> Caribbean, which is presumably related to the late influence from<br> Andalucia in the settlement of the area, as there are other features such<br> as aspiration or loss of final -/s/ which are widespread in the Caribbean<br> and reflect Andalucian features. In Columbia, this is characteristic of<br> the
coastal area. I once had a student from a remote valley of central<br> Columbia who reported that only "usted" was used there, even between her<br> parents.<br> <br> Hayim's comment about Arabic makes me wonder whether the Arabic influence<br> in Andalucia had any historical effect on the tu/usted use there. It is<br> interesting that due to European (French and German) influence, Turkish<br> developed an informal/formal 2nd person distinction, using the plural<br> for the formal form.<br> <br> Rudy Troike<br> <br> </div> </div> <!--End group email --> </blockquote><br><p>
<hr size=1>Choose the right car based on your needs.
Check out <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48518/*http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/;_ylc=X3oDMTE3NWsyMDd2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDY2FyLWZpbmRlcg-- ">Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.</a>
<span width="1" style="color: white;"/>__._,_.___</span>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97476590/grpId=11682781/grpspId=1709195911/msgId=4020/stime=1181335156" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br><br>
<div style="width:500px; text-align:right; margin-bottom:1px; color:#909090;">
<tt>SPONSORED LINKS</tt>
</div>
<table bgcolor=#e0ecee cellspacing="13" cellpadding="0" width=500px>
<tr valign=top>
<td style="width:25%;">
<tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc3Q5ZXMxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzEEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2?t=ms&k=Science+lab+equipment&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=nhMObThtY0u3dC_zdOTU4g">Science lab equipment</a></tt>
</td>
<td style="width:25%;">
<tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZ290djgyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzIEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2?t=ms&k=Life+science+research&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=Iijeys-hhXush45nkHI1fw">Life science research</a></tt>
</td>
<td style="width:25%;">
<tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkamViMDBpBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzMEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2?t=ms&k=Life+sciences&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=BzQVPANazGzLMf63F0AEwA">Life sciences</a></tt>
</td>
</tr>
<tr valign=top>
<td style="width:25%;">
<tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOHFzamw3BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzQEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2?t=ms&k=Life+science+product&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=Zt0u9C_2RYCHGrro11mmsA">Life science product</a></tt>
</td>
<td style="width:25%;">
<tt><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNHVmOWM5BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBF9wAzUEZ3JwSWQDMTE2ODI3ODEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA5MTk1OTExBHNlYwNzbG1vZARzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2?t=ms&k=Life+science+company&w1=Science+lab+equipment&w2=Life+science+research&w3=Life+sciences&w4=Life+science+product&w5=Life+science+company&c=5&s=125&g=0&.sig=4SCAy6h9Eoo0zrSnqnWSeg">Life science company</a></tt>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<div style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 77%; border-top: 1px solid #666; padding: 5px 0;" >
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnMjQ4cDVvBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjgyNzgxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTE5NTkxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMTgxMzM1MTU2">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:lexicographylist-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:lexicographylist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Fully Featured">Switch to Fully Featured</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcjRmcWxwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjgyNzgxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTE5NTkxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTE4MTMzNTE1Ng--">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
</a> |
<a href="mailto:lexicographylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">
Unsubscribe
</a>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<span style="color: white;"/>__,_._,___</span>
</body></html>