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I (a commoner) was raised in Russia by a Russian aristocratic lady who had right to be called Baroness (albeit some 35-40 years after October revolution). We spoke in French, and the strict rule was that I addressed her either ma tante,<br>tante Zina, or Voulez (veuillez) Vous ...? She always addressed me with my first name and tu. So in my case it was the difference in age.<br><br>Hayim Y. Sheynin<br><br>Hayim Y. Sheynin<br><br><b><i>billposer@alum.mit.edu</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div>It seems natural to associate the rise of the tu/usted type of distinction<br> with
feudalism, but note that societies with distinctions between nobility<br> and commoners developed in Europe long before we see this linguistic<br> distinction. The Roman Empire, for example, begins at the latest in 27 BCE<br> (some people date it to Caesar's appointment as dictator in 44 BCE).<br> Most of Europe was feudal in the Dark Ages but the tu/usted distinction seems<br> to appear only well into the Middle Ages. So, it certainly seems to<br> be the case that you don't get such distinctions in egalitarian societies, but<br> it isn't as if they arise rapidly in hierarchical societies.<br> <br> On another aspect of this, I knew a French couple in which the<br> husband used tu toward his wife while she used vous toward her<br> husband. Even the oldest people I know regarded this as odd.<br> It isn't clear if it is really archaic or just idiosyncratic.<br> The man was 15 years older than his wife, who was his former<br> secretary, and of a rather authoritarian bent. (He
subscribed to<br> the newspaper of the monarchist-fascist movement and expressed<br> agreement with its editorials.)<br> <br> In French there is also interesting variation in how you address<br> older members of the family. In many families children address<br> their parents as vous but their aunts and uncles as tu.<br> <br> Bill<br> <br> </div> </div> <!--End group email --> </blockquote><br><p>
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