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Dear Ron,<br><br>I think yours are very clever suggestions. However one should measure<br>what audience serves your dictionary. For us lexicographers the ideal goal is<br>to describe the word in all possible senses and usages. However many people <br>who use the dictionaries react on them the following way: it is too complicated for me, I would like something simpler. So the lexicographer works always between extremes. To achieve perfectness or to simplify. Now it is possible to do this like on websites. The standard entry in the body of the dictionary with additional links to etymology, semantics, phraseology and examples.<br><br>Best wishes,<br><br>Hayim Y. Sheynin <br><br><b><i>Ron Moe <ron_moe@sil.org></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> </div><div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">Because conceptual metaphors underlie many idioms and secondary ("metaphorical"<wbr>) senses, I believe we need to identify the conceptual metaphors that exist in a language and refer to them in our dictionary entries. It might be possible, for instance, to include an appendix that lists the conceptual metaphors and gives a list of examples under each:</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">Appendix A: Conceptual Metaphors</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span
class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">1. Time is a resource that you use.</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">waste time</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">save time</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">have time</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">cost (number) (time word), e.g. cost two hours</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">invested time in</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">time to spare</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">(run) out of time</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr"
align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">Then each relevant dictionary entry could reference the appendix:</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff"></font></span> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">waste v. To use something without gaining any benefit from it. 'Leaving the lights on all night wastes electricity.<wbr>' (Using the metaphor 'Time is a resource that you use', see Appendix A) 'I don't want to waste your time, so let's get right down to business.'</font></span></div> <div><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff"></font></span> </div> <div><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">Note that I don't consider the second example sentence to be a separate sense. The
meaning is the same. It is just applied to time as if time was a resource. We can talk this way in English because of the conceptual metaphor. Other languages can't. Our conceptual metaphor enables us to include the abstract concept 'time' in the list of possible objects of 'waste' which would otherwise be limited to concrete resources. Consequently I don't consider 'waste time' to be an idiom, but others might disagree with me on this point.</font></span></div> <div><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff"></font></span> </div> <div><span class="531024118-30072007"><font color="#0000ff">Ron Moe</font></span></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><br></div> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255);"> <div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us"> <hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> lexicographylist@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com
[mailto:lexicograph<wbr>ylist@yahoogroup<wbr>s.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fritz Goerling<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 29, 2007 7:11 AM<br><b>To:</b> lexicographylist@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com<br><b>Subject:</b> [Lexicog] Time is money?<br></font><br></div> <div></div> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> </div><div class="Section1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt; color: black;">A while ago we had a discussion on the most common nouns in the English language.</span></font><font size="4"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">“Time” was on top. I think that is revealing. George Lakoff and Mark Johnson considered in “Metaphors we live by” (2003)<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">the metaphorical concept TIME IS MONEY as is reflected in contemporary English, analyzing the following examples:<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">You are WASTING my time.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">The gadget will SAVE you hours.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">I don’t HAVE the time to GIVE you.<O></O></span></font></div> <div
class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">How do you SPEND your time these days?<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">That flat tire COST me an hour.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">I’ve INVESTED a lot of time in her.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">I don’t HAVE ENOUGH time to SPARE for that.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">You’re RUNNING OUT of time.<O></O></span></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">To lose, use, put aside, budget time are other expressions.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">All of them show TIME AS MONEY, TIME AS A LIMITED RESOURCE, and TIME AS A VALUABLE COMMODITY.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">The authors are right by saying that these
conceptualizations are tied to certain Western cultures, and that there are cultures where time is none of these things or is defined differently.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">You might know the joke about the Mexican and the Arab. The Mexican says to the Arab, “I hear you have a word for tomorrow that’s similar to our word <i><span style="font-style: italic;">mañana</span></i>.”<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">“Yes,” replies the Arab. “<i><span style="font-style: italic;">Bukara</span></i>. But it doesn’t have the same sense of
urgency.”<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">Well, what about strongly time-oriented nationalities like Americans, northern Europeans (Germans, Swedes)? All who have travelled know about cultural clashes in the area of different concepts of punctuality and time.<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">What then are the implications for dictionary-making, say in a bilingual dictionary ‘English-language
X//language X-English’?<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">How are different concepts of time handled vice versa? In an ‘English-German/<wbr>/German-English’ dictionary it might be relatively easy to find equivalent or similar expressions. But how about a bililingual dictionary ‘English-language X which was just reduced to writing’ and vice versa? <O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family: Arial;">Fritz Goerling<O></O></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; font-family:
Arial;"><O></O></span></font></div></div><!--End group email --> <div></div></div><!--End group email --><br> <div><font size="2">No virus found in this incoming message.<br>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: 7/29/2007 11:14 PM<br></font></div></blockquote> <br> <div><font size="2">No virus found in this outgoing message.<br> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.25/926 - Release Date: 7/29/2007 11:14 PM<br> </font> </div> <div></div> </div> <!--End group email --> </blockquote><br><p>
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