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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>Cheryl,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>I know it is hard to mess with the MDF
outputs, but it might be possible. It could be just a change to a cc table that
needs to be made. Or maybe a change to the document style sheet. You had better
ask Toolbox help for that, though. It’s over my head. There is an email at the
SIL site, I think, for Toolbox help. You should write them directly or write to
the Toolbox List. You can get specific help for Toolbox there. They are usually
very good at responding.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>If worse comes to worse, you might get a
more preferable output from Lexique Pro. It will accept your Toolbox data and output
it to Word, but that would involve more work setting up the data to export to
Lexique Pro.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>I’m sending another message which
addresses what seems to be incorrect \sn entries. If the \sn data is entered
correctly, you might not need to change the Toolbox output. I think it will
look fine if you get the \sn data correct.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>Crockett<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Cheryl Reitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 06, 2008
7:51 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Lexicog] Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology - using "idiom" in the \ps field<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Importance:</span></b> High<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks, Crockett,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Yes, this problem does turn
up, as you surmised, with any Data Range item under \ps other than
the first \ps item for the lexeme. There is both a new
sense number listing and a new line. There should be one or the other,
but not both, I think. If you can help us to troubleshoot this
problem, we will be most grateful as we hope to publish the first
"official" version this weekend. I have prepared a 2MB PDF file
of the first few pages of our Mabaan (a Sudan language) dictionary, which
illustrates this problem. I would have attached it but don't know the protocol
here. If you (or anyone else) wants to see this, let me know if
I am allowed to attach it to something sent out to the group.
If not, please send me an e-mail address outside the group and I will send
the PDF to you.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Warm greetings,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Cheryl</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
color=blue face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Crockett<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 05, 2008
9:34 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Lexicog] Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology - using "idiom" in the \ps field</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>I guess when some other \ps, like noun or adverb, comes out in
the printed dictionary the formatting is okay. Is that right? If so, I don’t
know why \ps idiom would change the formatting. It should just come out like
any other part of speech in the printed dictionary. I would not put “idiom”
under \sn. That is supposed to be something like a number or a letter.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Here is what the MDF manual says about \ps:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=3 face=Arial-BoldMT><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";
font-weight:bold'>\ps </span></font></b><b><i><font size=4
face=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldItalicMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:
"TimesNewRomanPS-BoldItalicMT","serif";font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Part
of speech</span></font></i></b><font size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span
style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>: [</span></font><b><font
face=Arial-BoldMT><span style='font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";font-weight:
bold'>\ps vt, \ps n, \ps PREP, \ps PRO</span></font></b><font size=4
face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>].
This is used to classify the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:
"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";font-style:italic'>vernacular </span></font></i><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>form,
not the English or national language gloss. For example, the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>quality
</span></font><i><font size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT><span
style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";
font-style:italic'>fat </span></font></i><font size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span
style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>might be an adjective
in English, but a verb in the vernacular</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>language.
</span></font><b><font face=Arial-BoldMT><span style='font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";
font-weight:bold'>\ps </span></font></b><font size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span
style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>labels should be
refined as one’s understanding of the language</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>grows.
In other words, don’t believe your early labels. Consistency in labeling</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>is
important. The </span></font><font size=2 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span
style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>RANGE SETS </span></font><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>in
SHOEBOX can help with this. There should</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>be
no final punctuation. MDF prints the </span></font><b><font face=Arial-BoldMT><span
style='font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";font-weight:bold'>\ps </span></font></b><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>contents
as italics (case is printed</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>as
entered in the original file) and adds a period [\ps vt </span></font><font
size=4 face=Symbol><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:Symbol'>→ </span></font><i><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:
"TimesNewRomanPS-ItalicMT","serif";font-style:italic'>vt.</span></font></i><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>].
See chapter 9 for</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>a
variety of relevant issues and Appendix E for a starter list of abbreviations. If</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>more
than one </span></font><b><font face=Arial-BoldMT><span style='font-family:
"Arial-BoldMT","serif";font-weight:bold'>\ps </span></font></b><font size=4
face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>is
used in an entry (e.g. one sense as a noun and another as a</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>verb),
then MDF starts each new </span></font><b><font face=Arial-BoldMT><span
style='font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";font-weight:bold'>\ps </span></font></b><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>within
an entry or subentry at the</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>beginning
of a new line, dividing the entry into sections on the basis of the </span></font><b><font
face=Arial-BoldMT><span style='font-family:"Arial-BoldMT","serif";font-weight:
bold'>\ps</span></font></b><font size=4 face=TimesNewRomanPSMT><span
style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT","serif"'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>It looks like what is happening to your friend’s data falls
under the last sentence, but that should not just affect \ps idiom. Maybe you
can send an example of the data and output to show better what is happening.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Crockett</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Cheryl Reitz<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:51
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Lexicog] Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>My colleague, a retired linguistic missionary (to Sudan)
who is in the process of producing a Toolbox dictionary, had been
advised several years ago to put "idiom" in the \ps Range
Set, and she has several hundred idioms in her database. The
hierarchy is \lx (lexeme)>\se (subentry)>ps (part of speech)>\sn
(sense number). The positioning of "idiom" under
\ps creates a problem when we try to print the dictionary. Each
idiom, like any new subentry, starts on a new line. The items under \sn do
not start on new lines, which looks better and saves space. For the
purpose of printing, then, it might be better if "idiom" (like
other items such as \de [definitions] or \sy [synonyms]) were under \sn.
However, I'm not sure how we can do this using the standard MDF
categories. Any advice?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Cheryl</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Crockett<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, March 01, 2008
10:16 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Lexicog] Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Ken,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Where do you label something as an idiom? I think some people
label idioms in the part of speech field. I would think you could use the part
of speech field to call it a calque.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Crockett</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>David Frank<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, March 02, 2008 5:18
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Lexicog] Re: Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I can't read
Cyrillic script and I'm not too familiar with Shoebox or Toolbox or FieldWorks,
but I think I see two problems here. It looks to me like you are citing an
example of a phrase, and I would not try to give an etymology for a phrase.
Words have etymologies; phrases don't. Or in the case of a calque, I suppose
you could consider the source from another language as being a kind of
etymology, but we wouldn't usually describe phrases as having etymologies.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Also, I wouldn't
assign a part of speech to a phrase either. It looks like you are calling this
phrase a noun, and I don't think that is appropriate. A phrase may contain
a noun but wouldn't be called a noun or any other part of speech. Instead
of a word class label, some people might want to assign a label that would be
appropriate to phrases such as "phr" or "np", but I prefer
to just leave the part of speech blank for anything I would put into a
dictionary that is comprised of more than one word.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-- David Frank</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>---- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<a href="mailto:ken_keyes@sil.org" title="ken_keyes@sil.org">Kenneth Keyes</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:flex@lists.sil.org" title="flex@lists.sil.org">flex@lists.sil.org</a>
; <a href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com"
title="lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Saturday, March 01,
2008 9:24 AM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> [Lexicog] Lexical
Relations vs. Etymology</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear
All, </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hi,
I have another brainteaser for you:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>What
relation do Calques bear to the language they are borrowed from? For example, I
have the following entries:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>АЗАМАТТЫҚ
ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ (АХАЖ) N Eng vital statistics offfce - where changes
in the lives of citizens are recorded Kaz азаматтардың өмір өзгерістерін тіркеп
жазып отыратын бөлім Rus отдел записи актов гражданского состояния </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>АХАЖ
Contr АЗАМАТТЫК ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Cf.
SFM export: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\lx
АЗАМАТТЫҚ ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\sn
1</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\ps_en
N</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\d_en
vital statistics offfce - where changes in the lives of citizens are recorded</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\d_kk
азаматтардың өмір өзгерістерін тіркеп жазып отыратын бөлім</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=RU style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>d</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=RU style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ru</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=RU style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
отдел записи актов гражданского состояния</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\lx
АХАЖ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\et
Contr</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\mn
АЗАМАТТЫК ХАЛ АКТІЛЕРІН ЖАЗУ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>This
a calque from the Russian: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ЗАГС
N Eng The government office where vital statistics are recorded. Kaz азаматтық
хал-ахуалды тіркейтін бөлім актілерін жазу Rus отдел <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>З</span></b>аписи<b><span style='font-weight:bold'> А</span></b>ктов<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'> Г</span></b>ражданского<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'> С</span></b>остояния<b><span style='font-weight:bold'> </span></b>calq:
АХАЖ. </span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span lang=FR style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(sem. domains: admin. -
administration.) {coll.}</span></font><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\lx
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>ЗАГС</span></font><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\sn
1</span></font><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=FR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\ps_en
N</span></font><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\d_en
The government office where vital statistics are recorded.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\d_kk
азаматтық хал-ахуалды тіркейтін бөлім актілерін жазу</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=RU style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>d</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span lang=RU style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>_</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>ru</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
<span lang=RU>отдел записи актов гражданского состояния</span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>\lf calq</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\lv
АХАЖ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\is_en
admin.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\sd_en
administration</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>\u_en
coll.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To
handle this case, I created a lexical function called “Calque”. However, this
is also the etymology of the word. How do I deal with the etymology? There are
tons of these cases (of calques from Russian) in Eurasian languages. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
for considering this! </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
regards,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ken</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=white face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:white'></span></font> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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