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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>The \se field is included in the
reversed finderlists. I really can’t imagine leaving off either the \ge,
\re, or \de fields from any entry. They each have an important role in a
dictionary database. Often, you will not need to use all three, but you’d
almost always have to use two of them. And very often separate kinds of entries
are needed in all three fields. Maybe you are just doing interlinearizing and
are not planning on producing a dictionary. If that is the case, your strategy
might be okay for you, but it would not work for someone producing a dictionary
with finderlists.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'>Crockett<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Kim Blewett<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 20, 2008
5:07 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [] Re: [Lexicog] question
about markers<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>Thanks for your comments, I guess I didn't explain myself well
enough. I do interlinearizing in TB, and this has been my experience, though I
haven't done much with more recent versions of TB, which is why I added a
disclaimer at the end of my posting--the behavior might have changed. Here's a
clarification on Crockett's first two paragraphs below (I can't seem to insert
text between his paragraphs).<br>
<br>
TB's interlinearizer doesn't know what to do with a \se field, it just ignores
it. So in the case of Neal's suggestion to Dimitris, TB finds two \ge lines
underneath the \lx kaboo. TB will parse "kaboo and happy" as three
separate words. It will ask which gloss (normal or stoned) you want to insert
under this instance of kaboo. If you WANT TB to gloss "kabo and
happy" as an idiom meaning 'stoned' you must create another record
like this:<br>
<br>
\lx kabo and happy<br>
\ps idiom (or whatever...)<br>
\ge stoned<br>
<br>
I didn't say I'm not using \ge for a bunch of entries; I said I don't use it
under \se. But I admit I'd forgotten about the reversal feature. Does the
reversed finder list include \se fields? My guess is that it doesn't, but if
so, and if the \re field will work for the finder list, I would recommend
that people add it instead of \ge to get their subentries reversed, because
\ge under \se really does cause problems when interlinearizing.<br>
<br>
Kim <br>
</span></font><br>
Crockett wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>I don’t know for sure since I don’t do
interlinearizing, but I would be surprised if TB sees <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>kaboo</span></i> and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>kaboo
and happy</span></i> as the same word. I would think TB would see the \se as
the same as an \lx. Unless the text actually has the whole phrase <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>kaboo and happy</span></i>, then TB would not think
that <i><span style='font-style:italic'>kaboo</span></i> was <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>kaboo and happy</span></i>; so only the \ge for kaboo
would come up. Does someone know if Kim is right about that?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Kim, If you are not using the \ge fields for a bunch of entries,
then I hope you are using the reversal fields. If not, none of the entries
where you only have \de will come out in your reversed finder list. That is to
say, none of the entries with only \de filled in will be in your index. TB only
uses \ge and \re to make the index. You might have a problem on your hands if
you were hoping to have fully indexed entries.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>As far as how to handle idioms, I would check national dictionaries
to see how they do it. Lots of dictionaries just list an idiom as a part of
speech. It is not called a noun or a noun phrase or any of that; it is just
listed as an idiom. That may make some people shudder, but I think it is a
practical solution. If you want to do it that way, then also list a \ps under
your \se and call it \ps idiom.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'>Crockett</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=4 color="#002060" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
color:#002060'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com
[<a href="mailto:lexicograph">mailto:lexicograph</a>ylist@yahoogroups.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Kim Blewett<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 19, 2008
7:06 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [] Re: [Lexicog] question
about markers</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Comic Sans MS"'>Just a comment here about the use of \ge vs \de. If you plan
to use Toolbox to produce interlinearized glossed texts, you should normally use
\de under \se "Subentry" rather than \ge. In the case below, each
time "kaboo" is encountered in a text, the interlinearizer will ask
you to choose between 'normal meaning' and 'stoned,' since it sees two \ge
fields in this record. If you instead enter the meaning of the \se phrase as
"\de stoned", Toolbox interlinear will ignore this when glossing. <br>
<br>
I believe that if you want TB interlinear to recognize and automatically gloss
"kaboo and happy" as 'stoned', you need to enter the phrase as a
separate record under \lx (interlinear ignores \se). TB is not really very
adept at automatically glossing phrases, however, and if you have any
morphology so that the exact phrase string is variable it won't work at all.<br>
<br>
So my habit is to use \de for all definitions EXCEPT those that I want the
interlinearizer to recognize. In other words, I believe that \ge, \a, and \u
are markers specifically designed for the interlinearizer rather than for
dictionaries. The MDF formatter does, however, pull in \ge for a dictionary
entry if the record contains no \de, thus saving us from entering single-word
definitions twice for each entry.<br>
<br>
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here...<br>
Kim Blewett<br>
</span></font><br>
<a href="mailto:Neal_Brinneman@sil.org">Neal_Brinneman@sil.org</a> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>/lx kaboo<br>
/ps n<br>
/ge stoned<br>
<br>
but how am I to handle the rest?<br>
<br>
\lx kaboo<br>
<br>
\ps n<br>
<br>
\ge normal meaning for kaboo<br>
<br>
\se kaboo and happy<br>
<br>
\ge stoned<br>
<br>
Neal<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.ncbrinneman.com">http://www.ncbrinneman.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=white face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:white'></span></font> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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