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<div>I'm sorry, but I disagree in the extreme with your statement.</div><div><br></div><div>Various major religions define and have defined marriage in many different ways, and it is not merely religions that define what marriage is (e.g., France, Germany, Turkey, where the religious ceremony has no legal meaning). Take Buddhism, for example, many sects of which recognize same-sex marriage. Another example is Christianity, many sects of which also recognize same-sex marriage. AFAIK same-sex marriage has been happening for several hundred years (I believe at least 1000) within Christianity. Before that, same-sex marriage occurred in ancient Rome, though I do not know if religion was involved. The interval is difficult because there are not many records.</div><div><br></div><div>In North America, where I do not believe religion has traditionally been involved in marriage, same-sex marriage was traditionally common, though same-gendered marriage was not accepted. I don't know much about same-sex marriage in North America and it isn't well documented, but same-sex marriage is a well known phenomenon there.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure what you mean by same-sex unions. This is a lexicographical issue, perhaps. Surely the peasants of Europe did not all get married in churches before modern times. Are those the people you mean to include by "same-sex unions"?</div><div><br></div><div>Today, of course, same-sex marriages are recognized by many religions and governments (Belgium, Canada, Spain, South Africa, etc.)</div><div><br></div><div>As a footnote, AFAIK there are ZERO religions that insist on a marriage being between two people capable of having children. Barring post-menopausal women or people physically incapable of having children can not be wed is surely not a requirement in any religion. That, however, is probably a matter of religion, not of lexicography. BB</div><div><br></div><div><div>On May 17, 2008, at 9:48 AM, Fritz Goerling wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width: 655px; position: relative; font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; "><div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 470px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 25px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; float: left; z-index: 1; line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="Section1" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; ">Not to my – certainly limited - knowledge, Benjamin.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font color="black" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="color: black; line-height: 1.22em; ">All major religions. although having somewhat differing understandings of marriage, recognize that marriage involves the union of the two complementary sexes in a relationship that normally is for childbearing and childrearing.<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; ">Whether it is legitimate to refer to same-sex<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-style: italic; line-height: 1.22em; ">unions</span></i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>as ‘marriage’ is debated and certainly not widely accepted.<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "> </o></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; ">Fritz Goerling<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "> </o></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; ">Benjamin Barrett wrote:</span></font></p><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia; "><p style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; ">Marriage has been known to encompass same-sex couples for at least 2000 years, though lexicographers did not reflect that fact in their dictionaries.<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "> </o></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; ">In modern times, dictionaries have recognized the word marriage as including same-sex couples for the last decade give or take a few years. Many same-sex couples have used the word marriage to refer to their situation for years before that, regardless of their legal status or whether dictionaries recognized it. Lexicographically, nothing happened in<st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; "><st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; ">California</st1></st1><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>as laws recognizing same-sex marriage were already present in other countries. BB<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "> </o></span></font></p><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; ">On May 17, 2008, at 9:13 AM, Fritz Goerling wrote:<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 1.22em; "><br style="line-height: 1.22em; "><br style="line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; background-position: initial initial; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Georgia" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "> </o></span></font></p></div><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; background-position: initial initial; "><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; line-height: 1.22em; ">Right - the “nemesis.” What do lexicographers do with youthful unorthodox uses of words like “wicked” or “bad” to mean “good/cool” which usually go out of fashion soon?” Slang dictionaries? Or what to do with the recent judicial redefinition of marriage by the Supreme Court in<st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; "><st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; "><st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; "><st1 style="line-height: 1.22em; ">California</st1></st1></st1></st1>?<o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font><font size="2" color="black" face="Georgia" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><p style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; background-position: initial initial; "><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; line-height: 1.22em; ">Fritz Goerling</span></font><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o><font size="2" color="black" face="Georgia" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Georgia; color: black; line-height: 1.22em; "><o style="font-size: 0px; line-height: 1.22em; "></o></span></font></p><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-msg" style="line-height: 1.22em; "><div id="ygrp-text" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia; "><div style="line-height: 1.22em; "><p class="MsoNormal" style="background-image: initial; background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: white; line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; background-position: initial initial; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000080" face="'Times New Roman'" size="4"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px; line-height: 19px;"><br></span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br>
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