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<P>It is a brilliant idea if we could make it possible. All the information under one roof would be of great help for others and it will be a contribution. </P>
<P>Shamla </P></FONT><BR><BR>--- On <B>Mon, 19/5/08, Ronald Moe <I><ron_moe@sil.org></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Ronald Moe <ron_moe@sil.org><BR>Subject: RE: [Lexicog] Phrase -- Long Word, With Gaps<BR>To: lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<BR>Date: Monday, 19 May, 2008, 10:07 PM<BR><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Benjamin Barrett wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“</SPAN></FONT>Have you checked out Wiktionary?<FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Scott Nelson wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“</SPAN></FONT>I'm waiting with bated breath for a true e-reference world.<FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Lexicographers of the world unite! The e-reference world awaits us. I don’t think Wiktionary is what we need. But it is certainly better than nothing. Let me propose what I believe would be ideal for us as lexicographers.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. A “Lexicography Resources” website. I am about to set up such a website, but would be very happy for suggestions. Here is what I envision:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1a. The website would be a collaborative research effort. It would be open to anyone, although we would probably want to screen those making contributions, perhaps with a password system. But it would be a neutral site and open to anyone who would want to make use of the materials on the site. I wouldn’t want to use the LexicographyList site because you have to sign up on the list in order to contribute to or access the materials on the site. (At least that is how I understand it. Please correct me if I am wrong.)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1b. A place for us to upload lexicography course materials. Anyone wanting to learn more about lexicography could take the course (or courses).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1c. A place for us to upload articles on various aspects of lexicography. We could begin by making a list of topics in lexicography. This list would be organized so that it would be easy to find a topic. Anyone wishing to contribute could upload an article to the page devoted to that topic. Anyone wishing to know more about the topic could download the articles.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1d. I would like people to contribute to three basic areas of knowledge: (a) theoretical lexicography, (b) practical methodology, (c) our understanding of particular lexemes and semantic domains. (I’ll expand on this point in 1e.)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1e. In order to define words (the hardest part of lexicography in my estimation), we need emic and etic descriptions of lexical sets. This would consist of studies of a lexical set in a particular language (emic), or a comparison of the same basic lexical set in a number of languages (etic). For instance we could all study the equivalent of the lexical set ‘happy/glad/joyful/ cheerful/ ecstatic’ in our language. Each of us could describe the words in the lexical set in our language and upload the description to the website. Then someone could do a cross-linguistic study using these descriptions and write up a general (universal/etic) description of the lexical set. Then, if someone else wanted to study that lexical set in a new language, they could read the descriptions in order to understand what issues to look for. I’ve already
started work on such materials and am excited about the possibilities.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. A dictionary website similar to Wiktionary. We could use Wiktionary, but only if they agreed to significant changes to their system. We might be able to persuade them if we as a group made some suggestions and offered to help. Alternatively we could use the Lexicography Resources website, but could set up a separate section for dictionaries. I realize that there are numerous places where we can archive our dictionaries. But I don’t know of anyplace other than Wiktionary where people can contribute online.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2a. The website would be a place where we could upload dictionaries “in process”. In other words we wouldn’t need to worry about the dictionaries being perfect or publishable quality.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2b. Like Wiktionary, others could contribute to the development of the dictionary. Perhaps we would need to have one person serve as the “editor” of each dictionary. Another alternative is to limit the contributors to those who are true lexicographers (or use some way to ensure that contributions are of reasonable quality). Another alternative is to merely upload dictionaries to the website but not provide any way for others to contribute. So the website would merely be a place to archive dictionaries and a place for others to access them.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2c. We could easily(?) set up a dictionary project for every language in the world, rather than wait for someone to volunteer to set it up. We could then scour the archives of organizations such as SIL for word lists of each language. For instance I collected wordlists for all the languages of Uganda and could upload hundreds (in some cases thousands) of words in each language. I believe it would be relatively easy to collect at least the Swadesh wordlist (or some equivalent) in every language in the world.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2d. We would need a standard for encoding the dictionary information. Such standards exist, but we would all have to agree on the standard and use it. For instance the headword might be in a local script, but each word would need to be transcribed in IPA (or something similar) in order for everyone to read it.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2e. We would need software to edit the dictionaries. (But only if we wanted people to be able to contribute online. Otherwise people would edit their dictionaries offline and merely upload them to the site.)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2f. We would need software to search the dictionaries. For instance someone could ask to see all the words in all the dictionaries that contain the word ‘happy’ in the definition.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please let me know what you think.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ron Moe</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">SIL International</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> lexicographylist@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:lexicograph ylist@yahoogroup s.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Benjamin Barrett<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, May 17, 2008 3:13 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> lexicographylist@ yahoogroups. com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Lexicog] Phrase -- Long Word, With Gaps</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Have you checked out Wiktionary? It provides a dynamic interface, lots of options for descriptions/ definitions/ synonyms, and means for requesting additional lexicographical tools. BB</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On May 17, 2008, at 11:50 AM, bolstar1 wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face=Georgia color=black size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><snip><BR>This is another reason, amongst many, I'm waiting with bated<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>breath for a true e-reference world. And this, not merely to be ! able<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>to append (via link-clicks) cursory treatments of single-word<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>definitions, but to include pronuciation (words stressed within<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>phrases, as opposed to words in isolation), etymologies, regional<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>variations, frequency evaluation, degrees of<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>emotion/emphasis/ vulgarity/ politeness, appropriateness in differing<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>contexts, exemplative and
real-world uses, synonyms and synonymous<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>phrasing (e.g. `(get) angry' = 1) see red 2) go through the roof<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>3) (be) as mad as a hornet 4) have a hissy fit 4) lose one's<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>cool/on! e's temper...the list goes on and on.). Linked backgrounds of<SPAN> </SPAN><BR>proverbs, allusions, and aphorisms would be an alleviation of a<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>source of angst and puzzlement amongst learners, especially in<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>humorous contexts.<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>As a simple example, when dictionaries list `model', definitions<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>include words like: good example, pattern, paradigm, prototype, rule,<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>epitome, ideal, exemplar.
This often begs the question of the meaning<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>of the original word. Synonyms naturally are relied upon. But one<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>rarely finds corresponding phrasal equivalents or examples (much less<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>with with usage notes and pronunciation) .<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>In the following example, various phrases could be substitute<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>for `model', often assuming the rhetorical form of "allusion": 1)<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>the gold standard of...; the bench mark' (or benchmark) of...' (model<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>for physical, qualitative, or quantitative measuring) 2) a `fairy-<BR>tale story' (model of ultimate success story) 3) `the flag bearer<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>of...'
(model of performance; leadership) 4) `a living legend'; `the<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>stuff of legend'; `the pin-up girl of...'; `the poster boy<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>of...'; "If there ever was a (something), he is it."; </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
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<P style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT face=Georgia color=black size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><snip><BR><BR>Scott Nelson</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P><FONT size=2>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1452 - Release Date: 5/17/2008 6:26 PM<BR></FONT></P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.20/1453 - Release Date: 5/18/2008 9:31 AM<BR></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>
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