<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3c.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/loose.dtd">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16735" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Marc, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I really appreciated your input on French. That is really
cool. I've studied several languages myself to varying degrees of
mastery (German, Chinese, Korean, Turkic, Manchu, Hebrew, Greek,
Russian), but French has always baffled me, and remains a mystery. Your
generosity in sharing your knowledge, and spurring others to participate in
this discussion overwhelms me with gratitude. I was positively giddy last
night. (excitement of linguistic discovery). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry that I overlooked your contribution to the
discussion! :-(</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>With gratitude, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=999274503-21102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Ken :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Marc
FRYD<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 20, 2008 11:29 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Lexicog] meaning and
usage of "on me"<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Don't mention it.<BR>Marc<BR><BR><BR>Kenneth Keyes wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:001901c932d5$a4d97f70$6401a8c0@lifebook type="cite">
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>? </P>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=779015316-20102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Wow, Thank you John, and everyone else, Mike, Benjamin,
Scott! I'll search on our language for this, and ask my local colleague
how this would be expressed in his language!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=779015316-20102008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=779015316-20102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm jazzed!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=779015316-20102008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=779015316-20102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Ken</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
lexicographylist@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com [<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:lexicograph">mailto:lexicograph</A><WBR>ylist@yahoogroup<WBR>s.com]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Roberts<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 20, 2008 1:02
AM<BR><B>To:</B> lexicographylist@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Lexicog] meaning and usage of "on me"<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Dear Ken,<BR><BR>This form of 'on me' in English can be categorized as the
malefactive. In many languages the form that is used to express the
benefactive is also used to express the malefactive, a deed done for the
disbenefit of someone. English is a language that uses different forms to
express benefactive/<WBR>malefactive. Typically English uses 'for' to express
benefactive and 'on' to express malefactive.<BR><BR>In Amele (Papuan) the same
form is used to express both notions. Benefactive can be expressed by an
applied object, as in (1), or by the postposition 'nu', as in (2). But
malefactive can only be expressed by an applied object, as in (3) and (4).
<BR><BR>1) Jo eu
ceh-i-t-i-a.<BR> house that
build-APPL-1sg.<WBR>OO-3sg.SU-<WBR>TODP<BR> 'He built that
house for me.'<BR><BR>2) Jo eu
ija=nu ceh-ei-a.<BR> house that 1sg=for
build-3sg.SU-<WBR>TODP<BR> 'He built that house for
me.'<BR><BR>3) Uqa ija=na ho q-i-t-i-a.<BR>
3sg<SPAN> </SPAN>1sg=of pig hit-APPL-1sg.<WBR>OO-3sg.SU-<WBR>TODP
<BR> ‘He killed my pig on me.’ <BR><BR>4) Ene<SPAN>
</SPAN>cain<SPAN>
</SPAN>salal-i-t-ag-<WBR>aun.<BR> here<SPAN>
</SPAN>PROH<SPAN> </SPAN>slide-APPL-1sg.<WBR>OO-2sg.SU-<WBR>NEGF
<BR> ‘Don’t slide here and annoy me (coll. don’t slide on me
here).’<BR><BR>There appear to be a number of articles posted on the internet
describing benefactive/<WBR>malefactive marking in different
languages.<BR><BR>John Roberts<BR><BR><BR><BR>Kenneth Keyes wrote: </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:001101c931ec$d10b2060$6401a8c0@lifebook type="cite">?
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Dear All, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Just a quick query. Have you thought about the
phrase "on me" when preceded by a verb? Someone recently asked me
about the meaning of "on me". He quoted Harry Truman's statement regarding
Gen. Douglas MacArthur's insubordination: "I don't want him to resign
<STRONG><U>on me</U></STRONG>, I want him fired!" What do you think of the
phrase "on me"? Is is a transitivizer? What does it
<STRONG><U>mean</U></STRONG>? This is different than its usual meaning as
preposition as in the famous "lean on me". I think it must mean "without my
permission", or "against my will". </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Here are some examples I thought of:
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Don't leave <STRONG>on
me</STRONG>.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Don't quit <STRONG>on me</STRONG>.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Don't up and marry <STRONG>on me</STRONG>.
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Don't die <STRONG>on
me</STRONG>!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>I hope he doesn't...on me. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>I'm afraid he might...on me. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Can you think of other examples? (Just a hint,
using Google wasn't very helpful.)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Is there a text corpus where we can specify
"any verb [any tense, any person, any number ]" followed by the phrase "on"
followed by an accusative/dative personal pronoun? How long can a phrasal
verb incorporating "on me" be?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>I am fascinated by this question. I hope you are
too. Many thanks in advance, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008>Ken</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=938365212-19102008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><SPAN
style="COLOR: white" width="1"></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><!--End group email -->
<P><FONT face="Arial Cyr" size=2>No virus found in this incoming
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.avg">http://www.avg</A>.<WBR>com<BR>Version: 8.0.173 / Virus
Database: 270.8.1/1731 - Release Date: 18.10.2008 18:01<BR></FONT></P></DIV><!--End group email --></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
Dr. Marc FRYD
Senior Lecturer in English Linguistics
Faculté des Lettres et des Langues
Université de Poitiers
95 avenue du Recteur Pineau
86022, Poitiers, France
Office: 05 49 45 48 11
Cell: 06 76 28 18 50
</PRE>
<P></P></DIV><!--End group email -->
<P><FONT face="Arial Cyr" size=2>No virus found in this incoming
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com<BR>Version: 8.0.173 / Virus
Database: 270.8.1/1732 - Release Date: 18.10.2008
18:01<BR></FONT></P>
<span width="1" style="color: white;"/>__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97476590/grpId=11682781/grpspId=1709195911/msgId=4672/stime=1224561628" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<div style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 77%; border-top: 1px solid #666; padding: 5px 0;" >
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJna2NnZmwzBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjgyNzgxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTE5NTkxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjI0NTYxNjI4">Change settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br>
Change settings via email: <a href="mailto:lexicographylist-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = "mailto:lexicographylist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery Format: Fully Featured">Switch to Fully Featured</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcmYxNXFhBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjgyNzgxBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwOTE5NTkxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIyNDU2MTYyOA--">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
</a> |
<a href="mailto:lexicographylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">
Unsubscribe
</a>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<span style="color: white;"/>__,_._,___</span>
</BODY></HTML>