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David,<br>
<br>
I am now home and have been able to consult my dictionaries. The New
Oxford Dictionary of English (1998) gives this definition for "die
out": become extinct, e.g. 'many species died out'. I can also say 'a
language dies out' and 'a trade/occupation dies out', but not 'a fire
dies out'. For me, this would mean 'a fire ceases to exist'. This
dictionary also says for "die down" (of a fire or light): stop burning
or gleaming. <br>
<br>
Collins English Dictionary New Edition (2005) gives this for "die out":
"die out" or "off" 1. (of a family, race, etc.) to die one after
another until few or none are left. 2. to become extinct, esp after a
period of gradual decline. For "die down" it has 1. (of some perennial
plants) to wither and die above ground, leaving only the root alive
during the winter. 2. to lose strength or power, esp by degrees. 3. to
become calm or quiet.<br>
<br>
<span class="std nobr"></span>So this is why my (British English) NIV
Bible uses "died down" in Numbers 11.2. "die out" is not allowed as
"fire" does not collocate. However,
for me this is not a satisfactory translation if the meaning is that
the fire went out completely, because I can say "the fire died down and
then sprang into life again". But I cannot say *"the fire went out and
then sprang into life again". Whereas "die out" includes the meaning of
'cease to exist', "die down" does not include this meaning. So if the
meaning in Numbers 11.2 is that the fire went out completely then the
translation should be "went out" and not "died down".<br>
<br>
So it looks like it is an American English vs. British English thing
again. In American English the usage of "die out" has been extended to
collocate with 'fire/flame' but in British English it hasn't. So you
are right and I am right. It depends on which side of the Atlantic you
are speaking.<br>
<br>
John R<br>
<br>
<br>
David Tuggy wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:49A01A09.3060707@sil.org" type="cite">
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One comment: It stands to reason that, for John and others who just
don’t say a fire <i>dies out</i>, the fire would have to <i>go out</i>
with the adverbials indicating a slow process (when they wanted to
communicate that it was a slow process). This affects statistics of the
sort you quote. For those of us who use both locutions, the split might
be sharper. <br>
<br>
Nevertheless, I certainly admit that it is possible for me, just
difficult or relatively unusual, to use <i>go out</i> to designate a
slow process, and (even less easily) <i>die out</i> to designate a
rapid one.<br>
<br>
--David<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:rtroike@email.arizona.edu">rtroike@email.arizona.edu</a>
wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:20090219233358.z193kcg8coscs004@www.email.arizona.edu"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Howdy, all,
I just did a quick G-search on "fire ... died/went out", and got the
following results:
fire slowly died out 355
fire slowly went out 146
fire quickly died out 141
fire quickly went out 223
fire gradually died out 138
fire gradually went out 103
light gradually died out 159
light suddenly died out 0
It is obvious that there is not a sharp distinction, but rather a higher
probability that "die out" will collocate with adverbials indicating a slower
process, while "go out" collocates with modifiers indicating a more rapid
process. Different individuals will obviously have a different
"Sprachgefuhl" regarding such matters.
Best,
Rudy
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