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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Ron,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was not thinking of using a
vernacular classification because the vernacular I am studying actually
seems to have few classification words of levels that I can find.
Also, I want my semantic domain list to reflect a likely folk
classification of English readers because it will mostly be English readers who
access the (English) sematic domain list. I know you do not want an English folk
classification. Sorry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my own English folk
classification, coconuts and dates can be classified as trees, but a 2
metre palm cannot be classified as a tree because it is too small. I do not
classify palms with short trunks and huge fronds as trees, so I use the
term palm. As soon as I admit that palms are a kind of plant (along side trees,
bushes, grasses & herbs) I am inclined to reclassify coconut trees and date
trees as coconut palms and date palms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My most basic plant classification is tree, bush,
grass, and (non-descript) 'plant'.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If I disambiguate more carefully I
have tree, bush, grass, 'plant', vine, fern, palm,
cactus.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If pushed, I will disambiguate herbs and moss
from the list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At a different level I distinguish between
vegetables and fruits vs. other plants, but that is another issue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there were about eight plant
classifications for English readers, I would perhaps include tree, bush, grass,
herb/small plant, vine, fern, palm, cactus. However you do not want an
English folk classification. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I wonder how a semantic domain list can serve the
hundreds, perhaps thousands of folk classification systems? A thorough semantic
domain list is very useful as a starting point, but how does it interact with
specific folk classification? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When producing an English semantic domain list on a
vernacular language, should the list reflect the folk classification of the
vernacular language culture, or the English reader?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have no real answers yet. What do you
think?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards, Greg</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ron_moe@sil.org href="mailto:ron_moe@sil.org">Ronald Moe</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:49 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Lexicog] palm trees</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Someone has asked me for help in classifying "palm trees" in my list
of<BR>semantic domains. If you have palm trees in your area, are they
classified<BR>as "trees" or as a separate category of plant? Science is not a
reliable<BR>guide to ethno-semantic classification. So please don't give me a
scientific<BR>answer or an English-based answer. I've pasted in below the
guidance that I<BR>gave the person who asked me the
question.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Ron Moe<BR><BR>@@@@@@@<BR><BR>Ask the people to
give you a hierarchical set of categories for the plants.<BR>"What kind of
plants are there?" If they give 'tree' as one type of plant<BR>then ask, "What
kinds of trees are there?" If 'palm' is given as a type of<BR>plant (or tree),
then ask, "What kinds of palms are there?" If there is a<BR>subcategory for
palms, then set up a domain for it and try to place it under<BR>the correct
major domain in the hierarchy. A domain that has 11 members<BR>should be a
separate domain if the people clearly see it as a separate<BR>group. You can
add domains to the DDP list in Toolbox or FLEx.<BR><BR>Be aware that the
hierarchy may be complicated. This is especially true of<BR>animals where an
animal can be classified along a number of parameters (bird<BR>vs mammal vs
reptile vs insect, pet vs domesticated (but not pet) vs wild,<BR>useful vs
vermin, edible vs inedible, carnivorous vs herbivorous vs<BR>omnivorous, beast
of burden vs not, forest dweller vs grassland dweller vs<BR>water dweller).
Some words may have two meanings and can refer to two<BR>different levels of
the hierarchy. For instance 'animal' can contrast with<BR>'plant' in science,
but in non-scientific speech it contrasts with bird and<BR>fish. So there
actually is no simple, straightforward hierarchy. But for<BR>display purposes
in a dictionary it is nice if we can pretend there is. J<BR><BR>I would be
very interested in any classification system you develop. I'm<BR>always
looking for evidence that shows where I need to adjust my domains. We<BR>call
palms "palm trees". But that doesn't mean most languages view them as
a<BR>subcategory of tree. My problem with the plants is that there is no
good<BR>basis for subcategorizing them. Science is too, well, scientific to be
of<BR>much use in determining how cultures view the world. I'm more interested
in<BR>ethnic semantics and folk classification systems. Words are funny
things.<BR>Tell me where "undergrowth" fits in a scientific classification
system.<BR><BR>I hope this helps. You should read my article (available for
download from<BR>the DDP website <A
href="ftp://ftp.sil.org/software/win/ddp/doc/">ftp://ftp.sil.<WBR>org/software/<WBR>win/ddp/doc/</A><BR>ddp4_emic_domains.<WBR>doc)
on emic domains.<BR><BR></P></DIV><!--End group email -->
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