Malaysia: Anwar to Abdullah: It's nothing personal

[Harold Schiffman]

Anwar to Abdullah: It's nothing personal
By Ioannis Gatsiounis

KUALA LUMPUR - It has been a decade since Anwar Ibrahim has held
political office, and yet the opposition politician remains the ruling
government's biggest concern as Malaysia readies itself for
parliamentary elections. Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi called the
snap polls for March 8, a month before a politically motivated
corruption conviction which bars Anwar from politics officially ends.
The former Islamic youth leader and deputy premier has since his
release from prison in 2004 refashioned his political image as a pious
crusader for social justice and racial equality. Although he cannot
run in the upcoming polls, he nonetheless is seen as the unifying
figure for a disparate group of opposition parties, which include the
Islamist party known as PAS, the Chinese-based and secular Democratic
Action Party (DAP) and his own multi-religious and multiracial
People's Justice Party (PKR).

Anwar's critics contend that he changes his tune depending on the
audience he is addressing - a charge the veteran politician denies.
Yet a poor showing by the opposition on Saturday may well force Anwar
to rethink his strategies - if not his political future. In a
wide-ranging interview, Anwar addresses the many challenges Malaysia
faces and calls on the electorate to vote for change.

Asia Times Online: What do you see as wrong with Malaysia?

Anwar Ibrahim: Now we're seeing more anger. The Indians are enraged
because of perceived discrimination and demolition of temples. It's
widespread throughout the country. And among the Chinese there's a
perception that the discriminatory policies have gone a bit too far to
enrich the few at their expense. So this is the basic problem. The
government's failure, due to incompetence and poor leadership, has
affected them aversely. And the state of our economy: we rely to a
large extent on [foreign direct investments] ... and we have lost
that. We have lost our competitiveness; we have lost out to our
neighbors.

ATol: The Chinese and Indian communities have voiced their frustration
about a number of government policies, but over the years most have
continued to support the Barisan Nasional-led ruling coalition. Do you
foresee a change at the upcoming polls?

AI: Well, I see change because I think [the government has] crossed
the line. For example, we have seen the destruction of [Hindu]
temples, the issue of permits, or building bylaws. This is the first
time we have seen a 100-year-old temple demolished. Nothing has been
done to address the legitimate grievances of the Indian community:
poverty, unemployment, housing, crime. And among the Chinese, when the
economy becomes more sluggish, then they of course will attach blame
to poor governance and the [affirmative action] New Economic Policy.
And then how does the government respond? Of course, brandishing the
keris [traditional Malay dagger] towards minority groups becomes very
symbolic. It's virtually a threat. They change the language ... of
instruction [to Malay] for math and science in Chinese schools. So I
think unlike previous elections, the Chinese and the Indians have
virtually made a clear shift. Normally Malaysians maintain their
decorum and are quite polite. But now you see ministers going and
being booed, which is unheard of.

ATol: Why vote for your PKR party? What can you and your party bring
to the people that the BN [Barisan Nasional] has not?

AI: First is the issue of governance. We have made it very clear that
constitutional guarantees must be protected, which means we respect
the Malay majority [and] Islam as the religion of the federation. But
the constitution also guarantees freedom of conscience, religion and
expression. The rights of non-Malays in terms of language and culture
must be respected.

Second and very critical is our Malaysia Economic Agenda. We've
crafted our agenda in a way that will make us more competitive and
attract investment - but not at the expense of the Malay community.
Even in areas where you need to have affirmative action, it will not
be based on race: affirmative action for the marginalized, for the
poor irrespective of race.

ATol: There is a great deal of indignation among the Chinese, having
been victim to discriminatory policies for so long. Isn't there a
legitimate fear among Malays that if you scrap the New Economic
Policy, the Chinese would pursue their personal and community
interests at the expense of the Malays?

AI: There is, I agree. I have crafted the Malaysian Economic Agenda
for more than a year now. There is no free media. So therefore we have
to publish half a million pamphlets so people can understand. It will
not be at the expense of the Malays, because it is affirmative action
to protect the interest of the majority of the poor and marginalized,
which means you do away with the 30% [ethnic Malay ownership] control
[requirement for local] companies. We would take RM10 billion [US$3.1
billion] for quality education, so the majority of the funds would
still go to the Malays.

ATol: But what is it about the policy that guarantees protection for
the Malays?

AI: If I have 10 billion ringgit to spend for education or whatever,
do I then give contracts or construction away to 20 Malay families? Or
do I allocate these resources to all poor Malaysians, irrespective of
race? Now, 80% of [state] funds go to [only] a million Malays.

But then the funds will also be able to be absorbed by the Chinese and
Indians - the deserving ones. And the Malays would actually benefit
more than they do now. But there has been incessant propaganda for the
last three decades that our [Malay] survival would depend only on the
New Economic Policy.

ATol: What is the party, and more broadly the opposition, doing
differently this time around from the 2004 elections? What lessons
have been learned and how have you re-tooled and re-strategized?

AI: One is to work together; one opposition candidate versus the BN.
Second is to address issues clearly to the public. We can talk about
independent judiciary, free media, freedom of conscience,
constitutional guarantees. But you have to articulate these issues in
clear terms.

ATol: But in the past the opposition has raised these issues without
sufficiently articulating the consequences. Are the consequences being
articulated? In other words I could say the BN is corrupt but unless
you're conveying to the people the consequences of that corruption,
the message runs the risk of getting lost.

AI: That's right. When our speakers talk they must not just talk about
an independent judiciary. You talk about how corruption has led to
cases being determined at the expense of the people ... which means
the poor suffer. Or, on the issue of price increases, why is it that
Malaysia is the [world's] largest producer of oil palm and still
[there isn't] enough in their supermarkets? Is it because you protect
the cartels? You don't even allocate 2% to benefit the poor. So you
have to articulate it in a way people can understand.

ATol: Some people have charged that you're not a genuine reformer. How
has your time in the political wilderness changed you?

AI: Well, of course, it's a time to meditate and reflect and read. But
for me it should be done from our programs and actions ... Because I
think that even in my time in government, you talk about public
housing programs, you talk about toll increases - I could defend my
record ... Why is it when I go to the low-cost housing areas like
Kampong Kerinchi I have huge support? They know that I was the last
bastion for effective programs by the government for the poor when I
was minister.

ATol: How have you changed your ideas about governing and the
direction of the country since you were last in office?

AI: Well, I think you mature. And I think globalization and the
changing environment would dictate - demand - that you also

adapt accordingly. Your understanding of the policies or the economy,
your assumptions that you can decouple easily, knowing that it's not
realistic.

Okay, I'm very passionate about working with and helping the poor.
[But] you realize that without growth and competitiveness, you will
not have the resources, which means you have to have a market-friendly
economy and other things - reforms - before you can assist and elevate
the living conditions of the poor ... I think [the government] has
failed on both counts, attempting to propel the economy but ignoring
the plight of the poor.

ATol: You are now articulating a much more democratic agenda



than what you did when you were in the United Malays Nasional
Organization (UMNO)-led government. Did you have some epiphany that
democratic principles are important for development?

AI: Of course you can articulate your position more freely now. But if
you look at my position - freedom of democracy and empowerment and
support for an independent judiciary are there. So I don't think it's
quite correct to suggest that these are only thoughts [I'm having]
now. But then you articulate, you craft in a different manner, because
of the constraints of the media.

ATol: A letter writer to a politics and culture website recently
commented that your "faction within UMNO was remembered [even] by UMNO
members as one of the most aggressive ... and deeply feared". How do
you respond?

AI: Aggressive, yes. We were looking to achieve reform. For instance,
I introduced this anti-corruption bill. It was immensely unpopular
among the UMNO leaders. Not [just] UMNO supporters, but ministers for
that matter ... I looked at the Hong Kong Independent Commission
Against Corruption. There's a provision that if you are deemed to be
corrupt even after 10 years in office - that you benefited while you
were in power - they can go after you. That provision was strongly
opposed to.

ATol: I think, though, what the letter writer meant by "aggressive"
was intimidating.

AI: That's the first time I'm hearing this. I was [part of] the more
liberal wing of the government. It's quite known. For example, I
engaged the Bar Council at the time [former premier] Mahathir
[Mohamad] was fighting [them]. When there was a huge protest over the
Baku dam, I allowed them to come in and discussed it with them. When
the draft bill was tabled in cabinet, I faxed the draft to the
opposition leader the moment I got it, which had never happened in the
past.

ATol: Some people say Islam has begun to play too central a role in
Malaysian life. Do you agree and what would you do to revise matters?

AI: It depends on how you perceive this. The super-liberal wing of the
public would want to have nothing to do with Islam. And you have an
extremely conservative wing that wants to dictate. So I don't share
either view. But then we have to sort it out.

You have to engage them, allow them to articulate their views. So I
think for a person to suggest in Malaysia - to deny the role of
religion and Islam - I don't share that view. Where I think we draw
the line is when it comes to compelling people, or not allowing
non-Muslims to use the civil courts. That's unheard of in our 50
years.

ATol: Obviously there is increased tension between the races with
religion playing a part. What as a leader would you do to defuse the
situation?

AI: I am opposed if a group for example wants to compel others to
Islam, [or] if you apostatize you should be shot. And the other view
says religion should have no role whatsoever; we should do away with
the religious court. I also disagree with that. I think the consensus
among Muslims is that the sharia court should be confined to Muslim
personal law and Muslim affairs.

The problem is when you use this legislation to compel ... to deny
non-Muslims to bring their cases to the civil courts, because finally
the issue of faith is a personal issue. I am a Muslim. I believe in
Islam. I don't rejoice in hearing that people are leaving Islam, but I
think finally it is his or her personal decision. It is beyond me and
I don't think we should politicize that further.

ATol: The prime minister's son-in-law and UMNO deputy youth chief
Khairy Jamaluddin recently branded you as an agent of the Jews and the
United States. There are reportedly pictures of you and [former US
deputy defense secretary] Paul Wolfowitz being disseminated in the
villages. Could this be damaging to you politically?

AI: It could. But look ... I say yes, I'm a friend of the Jews. I am a
friend of the Chinese, a friend of the Muslims. Where is the problem?
The Iraq war - I am against it. There are many Americans, including
Jews, who are against the Iraq war.

ATol: But anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism run deep in Malaysia.
It's maybe not as vocal as in some other places, but there is a great
deal of ignorance and fear. And UMNO has the machinery to fan the
flames. What are you doing to combat it?

AI: It does [run deep], it's ignorance, and it's been [reinforced] by
leaders. Mahathir did it ... and this is dangerous. I did address [the
allegations], but in the last few months I have not because I asked
some religious leaders and they said [only] a small number of people
are being influenced by this and they said I don't need to respond. So
I have moved on ... We are taking a civil suit against Khairy on that
allegation.

ATol: Some people say you haven't been very critical of the prime
minister. This has led to speculation that you may one day attempt to
rejoin UMNO. Why haven't you been more critical?

AI: I have nothing personal against him.

ATol: But this is the election season. Don't you need to use
everything within the capacity of the law at this point to end the
BN's two-thirds parliamentary majority?

AI: If I have evidence, I present it. But with Abdullah there is
incompetence ... He gives a multi-billion ringgit contract to his son
to build a monorail in Penang without tender. He gives a 25 billion
ringgit development approval for Patrick Lim, his crony in Penang.
These things are being said.

But to make personal attacks, I refuse. But it's wrong for them to say
I haven't been critical. You say the leadership is incompetent, you
say that under Abdullah we have been less competitive economically,
that corruption has become more endemic, crime rates have increased -
all under Abdullah. I have done that, made major criticisms of him.
But to go [down the road of personal attacks], well [Abdullah] sleeps
all the time, why is he married to this [new foreign wife] Jeanne? I
don't go there.

Ioannis Gatsiounis, a New York native, is a Kuala Lumpur-based writer.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/JC07Ae02.html
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