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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, Swahili is remarkable. But though it is
spoken as mother tongue by a minority, doesn't Swahili have higher prestige than
the other languages in East Africa? It was originally spread by traders
from Zanzibar, who were the middlemen of the Arabs, no? Weren't these
Zanzibaris more powerful, at least economically?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=john_ekaju@yahoo.com href="mailto:john_ekaju@yahoo.com">John
Ekaju</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 02, 2004 6:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Does language prestige
correlate with community size?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Readers, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I should like to join the debate by making an observation that Kiswahili
(originally spoken in the coastal areas of East Africa), is an
example of a language shift where people have opted to learn a minority
language for national cohesion in the linguistically fragmented
societies where tribal tensions are dangerously high. Most East African
governments and beyond are actively encouraging Kiswahili, the de facto
lingua franca, to the status of national language (eg Tanzania, Kenya and
loosely in Uganda with English the language of former colonial power remaining
as the official language). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The huge advantage of kiswahili is that unlike most African languages, it
transcends the ethnic tag in the real sense, moreover, it is not identified to
any threatening group.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Ekaju <BR><BR><B><I>Stan & Sandy Anonby
<stan-sandy_anonby@sil.org></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Thank
you for all those interesting points and examples! They clearly
show<BR>there are various situations where people learn minority
languages.<BR><BR>I see that my observations do not hold universally, but I
still think they<BR>may apply to the sociolinguistic stance I've seen in
Canada, Brazil and<BR>Africa; language shift is from smaller, less
prestigious languages to<BR>larger, more prestigious ones. People belonging
to the larger, more<BR>prestigious groups, rarely learn the languages of the
smaller, less<BR>prestigious groups. The languages you mention are very
interesting, but<BR>their sociolinguistic millieu is different than the one
I had in mind.<BR><BR>Re the examples you give of the imperial elites, I
don't think those reasons<BR>exist anymore, and they don't lead to shift,
displacing the language of the<BR>hearth and home.<BR><BR>The languages you
mention that,! though they have fewer speakers, are higher<BR>prestige,
include:<BR>Greek, Hebrew (both still prestige languages today in some
circles)<BR>Persian<BR>Chinese in Japan<BR>French (Jews in Morocco today
speak French for prestige reasons; many<BR>Anglo-Saxons under the Normans
did the same; but anglophones in Canada<BR>rarely learn French, because in
Canada French has lower prestige than<BR>English)<BR>English<BR><BR>The
examples you gave of Irish, Greek outside of Greece, Hebrew outside
of<BR>Israel, Chinese in Japan, Welsh, and Irish, well, I don't see them
having<BR>that strong of an impact. In a few years, the learners will forget
these<BR>languages, just like I've forgotten most of my Hebrew, because this
language<BR>learning has almost no effect on the communities in which they
live.<BR><BR>Re Guarani in Paraguay, I don't think it's a case of the
majority Spanish<BR>speakers switching to the minority Guarani language.
It's more like most<BR>Paraguayos learn Guarani in the home,! and Guarani
remains a hearth and home<BR>language - a diglossia situation, as almost
nobody is literate in Guarani.<BR>I think that rule of crass materialism in
Paraguay holds that Guarani<BR>speakers are bilingual in Spanish, not vice
versa.<BR><BR>Stan Anonby<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
"Nicholas Ostler" <NOSTLER@CHIBCHA.DEMON.CO.UK><BR>To:
<LGPOLICY-LIST@CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU><BR>Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:21
PM<BR>Subject: Does language prestige correlate with community
size?<BR><BR><BR>> At 12:02 pm -0400 1/4/04, Stan & Sandy Anonby
wrote:<BR>> >I guess "lesser languages" isn't a good term. I'm open to
suggestions...<BR>><BR>> In Europe, it's common to use the term
"lesser used languages", as in<BR>> European Bureau for Lesser used
Languages. "Minority languages" too<BR>> seems fairly
objective.<BR>><BR>> >I've only worked for SIL for 2 1/2 years, so
I can't say my views are<BR>> >representative of the organizati! on.
I've traveled quite a bit, though,<BR>and<BR>> >I've noticed the less
prestigious groups learn the language of the more<BR>> >prestigious
ones.<BR>><BR>> This may be analytic, since the term "prestige"
characterizes the<BR>> tendency of the favoured group to attract others
to assimilate to it.<BR>> But greater population is not a universal
feature of such prestige<BR>> groups. And even dominant groups can look
outside themselves for the<BR>> source of the "true
class".<BR>><BR>> >I haven't seen any examples to the contrary.
I've seen<BR>> >isolated individuals who learn smaller languages, but
it's pretty<BR>uncommon,<BR>> >I think. Do you have any examples of
larger, dominant groups learning<BR>the<BR>> >language of the smaller
groups?<BR>><BR>> Assyrians/Babylonians giving up Akkadian for
Aramaic, from 8th<BR>> century BC; as a result, Akkadian, the traditional
language of the<BR>> ruling class, died out.<BR>&! gt; Romans using
Greek throughout their Eastern Mediterranean empire,<BR>> from 2nd
century BC on<BR>> Turkic conquerors in central Asia learning Persian
from 10th century,<BR>> indeed later transmitting it (as elite language)
to India (e.g. in<BR>> Mughal Empire)<BR>> Japanese courtiers
affecting Chinese in 8th-11th centuries (in<BR>> writing at
least).<BR>> Elite learners of Greek in Western Europe since the
Renaissance.<BR>> Christian clerics learning Hebrew<BR>> Russian elite
speakers affecting French in 17th-19th centuries<BR>> Past
language-switch by Ethiopian groups when they have changed<BR>>
habitat/way of life (reported by Dick Hayward)<BR>> Deliberate learning
of Guarani by Spanish-speakers in Paraguay<BR>> Afrikaans-speakers
learning English in South Africa<BR>> English immigrants to Wales (esp.
their children in schools,<BR>> obligatorily) learning Welsh.<BR>>
Most modern learners of Irish (including many Americans).<BR>><BR>>
And there are many examples of imperial elites learning the language<BR>>
of lower-class communities (not necessarily indigenous
languages):<BR>><BR>> British army officers in 18th-20th centuries
learning Urdu in India,<BR>> Swahili in Africa etc.<BR>> Dutch
administrators in 17th-18th century Ceylon, learning Portuguese<BR>>
creole (widespread among servant class);<BR>> Dutch administrators in
17th-20th century Java and East Indies<BR>> generally, learning
Malay<BR>> Portuguese (especially Jesuits) in Brazil 16th-18th
centuries,<BR>> learning Tupinamba<BR>><BR>> In general, it is a
remarkable fact that the Dutch never passed on<BR>> their language in
their colonies (except for Cape Colony in Africa),<BR>> although they
held the East Indies as long as Britain did India.<BR>> There may be a
particular sociolinguistic stance evinced here,<BR>> revealed also by the
rather low profile of Dutch among the modern<BR>> European languages,
despite its high population.<BR>><BR>> >I don't like crass
materialism either - that's one reason why I live in<BR>> >Brazil and
don't eat at McDonalds - but it would seem to me that whether<BR>we<BR>>
>like it or not, this world is highly motivated by materialism. It may
be<BR>> >noble to fight these world wide trends, but what's wrong with
admitting<BR>they<BR>> >exist?<BR>> ><BR>> >Stan
Anonby<BR>><BR>> Nothing at all, up to a point. But remember always
that apparent<BR>> "universal trends" may just be passing phases of the
current era.<BR>><BR>> Nick Ostler<BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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