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<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Briefly, no. At more length, see <FONT face=Arial>Spolsky, Bernard.
(1995). <I>Measured words: the development of objective language testing</I>.
Oxford: Oxford University Press.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For a
programmatic explanation what would be involved in answering the question, see
<FONT face=Arial>Bachman, Lyle G. (2004). <I>Building and supporting a case for
test use.</I> Paper presented at the Language Testing Research Colloquium,
Temecula CA.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>"Fairly good idea" is not the same as accurate measure.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
belief in a scale was strongly urged by Thorndike (and of course it
pragmatically adapted by bureaucrats), but language scales have not been
validated.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Plurilingual proficiency, as the Common European Framework (<FONT
face=Arial>Council of Europe. (2001). <I>Common European framework of reference
for languages: learning, teaching, assessment</I>. Cambridge: Cambridge
University Press) makes clear is a high complex matter, with variation on a
great number of dimensions. While it does suggest a scale, it certainly
does not try to define a point at which someone is
bilingual.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Bernard</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face=Arial></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=015281820-31102004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face=Arial>.</FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
[mailto:owner-lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>R. A.
Stegemann<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:13 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Measuring human language
proficiency<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Bernard,<BR><BR>Why does the
scale have to be magic? I decided that I had become bilingual in French and
German, when Germans could no longer tell what part of the Benelux I was from
and the French always wondered, if I were not Swiss. Of course, in Europe my
physiognomy played an important role in my interlocutor's ability to place me.
An advantage that I have never had in East Asia.<BR><BR>What concerns me is
when you write that "human language proficiency" cannot "be measured with any
degree of accuracy". What is your take on comprehensive written and oral
examinations like those offered by the ILETS. Do these examinations not
accurately measure one's command of something one might call international
English? Obviously they are not perfect measures, but certainly they can
provide a perspective employers or schools with a fairly good idea of what
their getting, can they not?<BR><BR>Hamo<BR><BR><?fontfamily><?param Helvetica>R. A.
Stegemann<BR>EARTH's Manager and HKLNA-Project Director<BR>EARTH - East Asian
Research and Translation in Hong
Kong<BR>http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/earth/<BR>Tel/Fax: 852 2630 0349<?/fontfamily><BR><BR>On 29 Oct 2004, at 13:11, Bernard Spolsky
wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Joe<BR>I agree, but as one who has spent a long time on language
testing, I think<BR>you are over-optimistic in assuming that human language
proficiency can be<BR>measured with any degree of accuracy. Which is why I
am uncomfortable with<BR>the notion that there is a point on some magic
scale at which someone<BR>becomes "bilingual."
<BR>Bernard<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>