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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Christina,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You're welcome.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK, you're right in making a distinction.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1) Earlier in the conversation, we were talking
about two dueling languages, of more or less equal status duking it out. In that
case, the one with higher status would last longer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2) My examples were of two very low status
languages against one huge language. I</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>n my case,
the ramifications of status are different. Right?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Take care,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=paulston+@pitt.edu href="mailto:paulston+@pitt.edu">Christina
Paulston</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:50
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: 'Status' drives extinction
of languages</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Stan,<SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre">
</SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>Thank you for
the article, all printed out already,</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre"></SPAN>Here I think
youneed to be concerned about whose status relative to whom. Both
your tribes have lower social status than the speakers of the main
language, Portuguese and you see evidence of that exactly with your Surui.
Then you have to look for other reasons they have become bilingual
faster than the other tribe: belief systems, geographical distance, motivation
in the form of jobs, etc. Let's not forget that lge shift is
multi-causal after all. Christina</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Feb 14, 2008, at 2:39 PM, Stan & Sandy Anonby wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can think of examples where the higher status
tribes assimmilate much more quickly than the lower status tribes. I'm
talking here about status in their own eyes as well as in the eyes of
outsiders. I'll give you one example.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>In
Brazil, there are two tribes living more or less in the same area. The Surui
are more outgoing and have think more highly of themselves than the
Nambiquara. The Nambiquara have had contact with outsiders since the 1930's,
while the Surui were contacted in the early 1970's. The Surui are much
smaller numerically. Yet they are more bilingual than the Nambiquara.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>In
fact, in Brazil and in Canada, (the two places I've worked) it seems to me
that it is almost always the case that the lower status families,
individuals, and tribes tend to retain their language longest.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Stan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>---- Original Message -----</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=krutel@mville.edu
href="mailto:krutel@mville.edu">Laurence D. Krute</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: 'Status' drives extinction of
languages</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>The process of community language shift are much more
complex than the brief version of the article seems to
indicate.<BR><BR>Felecia's astute comment can be generalized; 'status' and
other attitudinal factors matter a great deal, but status *according
to whom* matters a great deal more, but perceived functionality, among
many other factors, matters far more that that.<BR><BR>Piaroa
(Amazonas Territory, Venezuela, linguistic genetic isolate basically,
possibly 13,000) strongly feel that their society, customs, and language
are quite uniquely wonderful, special, and correct. However, Piaroa
are no more monolingual in Piaroa or even more bilingual in Piaroa and
Spanish (as opposed to monolingual Spanish) than are surrounding
indigenous groups, in the face of the equally strong beliefs to the
contrary (that the language, customs, and people are bascially
subhuman) by those whose views matter--local
Spanish-speakers....(That is, Piaroa speakers are still giving up
Piaroa.)<BR><BR>Larry<BR><BR>
<P><BR>Dr. Laurence Krute<BR>Associate Dean--Graduate Advising<BR>School
of Education<BR>Manhattanville College<BR>2900 Purchase Street Purchase,
NY 10577<BR>voice:914 323-5366<BR>fax:914
323-5493<BR></P><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: "Felecia
Briscoe" <<A
href="mailto:Felecia.Briscoe@utsa.edu">Felecia.Briscoe@utsa.edu</A>><BR>Sent
2/14/2008 12:03:47 PM<BR>To:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A>,<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A><BR>Subject:
RE: 'Status' drives extinction of languages<BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>Doesn't status really mean the language spoken by the
group that controls the most
resources?<BR><BR>Felecia<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From:<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:owner-lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">owner-lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>on behalf of Stan & Sandy
Anonby<BR>Sent: Thu 2/14/2008 11:54 AM<BR>To:<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A><BR>Subject:
Re: 'Status' drives extinction of languages<BR><BR>Interesting. Sounds
like it's broadly researched. I've got a couple
of<BR>comments.<BR><BR>1) I wonder how widely the status argument can be
applied. For instance, the<BR>article says the researchers point out that
bilingual societies do exist:<BR>"But the histories of countries where two
languages co-exist today generally<BR>involve split populations that lived
without significant interaction,<BR>effectively in separate, monolingual
societies. Only recently have these<BR>communities begun to mix, allowing
language competition to begin."<BR><BR>Maybe the populations lived without
significant interaction because the<BR>status difference was so great.
Maybe mixing happened recently only because<BR>the lower status language
began to gain prestige.<BR><BR>2) I believe that the increased status of
French in Quebec may have helped<BR>in creating a larger percentage of
speakers there. However, I think larger<BR>factors included the flight of
English speakers and large immigration from<BR>Francophone
countries.<BR><BR>Stan Anonby<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message
-----<BR>From: "Harold Schiffman" <<A
href="mailto:hfsclpp@gmail.com">hfsclpp@gmail.com</A>><BR>To: "lp"
<<A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@ccat.sas.upenn.edu</A>><BR>Sent:
Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:27 AM<BR>Subject: 'Status' drives
extinction of languages<BR><BR><BR>> 'Status' drives extinction of
languages<BR>> Bob Beale<BR>> ABC Science Online<BR>><BR>>
Thursday, 21 August 2003<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> A
language's status in society is the best way to predict if it is<BR>>
headed for extinction Languages evolve and compete with each other<BR>>
much like plants and animals, but those driven to extinction are<BR>>
almost always tongues with a low social status, U.S. research
shows.<BR>> The social status of a language is the most accurate way of
predicting<BR>> whether it will survive, argue researchers in a paper
appearing today<BR>> in the journal, Nature . They also suggest that
active intervention to<BR>> boost the status of rare and endangered
languages can save them.<BR>> "Thousands of the world's languages are
vanishing at an alarming rate,<BR>> with 90% of them being expected to
disappear with the current<BR>> generation," warned Dr Daniel Abrams
and Professor Steven Strogatz,<BR>> both of Cornell University in New
York.<BR>><BR>> The pair have developed a simple mathematical model
of language<BR>> competition to explain how dialects such as Welsh,
Scottish Gaelic and<BR>> Quechua - the most common surviving indigenous
language in the<BR>> Americas - have lost out to more dominant
tongues.<BR>> The model is based on data they collected on the number
of speakers of<BR>> endangered languages - in 42 regions of Peru,
Scotland, Wales,<BR>> Bolivia, Ireland and Alsaçe-Lorraine - over time.
All have been in<BR>> steep decline over the past century or so, and
the model suggests that<BR>> Scottish Gaelic and Quechua will be close
to extinct by about 2030.<BR>><BR>> Previous models of language
dynamics have focused on the transmission<BR>> and evolution of syntax,
grammar or other structural properties of a<BR>> language itself. Yet
by comparing various influences that help to<BR>> explain the steadily
declining numbers of speakers of each language,<BR>> Abrams and
Strogatz singled out status as the single most significant<BR>> factor
that could predict its extinction threat.<BR>><BR>> "Quechua, for
example, still has many speakers in Huanuco, Peru," they<BR>> note.
"But its low status is driving a rapid shift to Spanish, which<BR>>
leads to an unfortunate situation in which a child cannot
communicate<BR>> with his or her grandparents." A language's fate
generally depends on<BR>> both its number of speakers and its perceived
status, the latter<BR>> usually reflecting the social or economic
opportunities afforded to<BR>> its speakers, they said. When two
languages are in competition, the<BR>> one that offers the greatest
opportunities to its speakers will<BR>> usually
prevail.<BR>><BR>> The researchers point out that bilingual
societies do exist: "But the<BR>> histories of countries where two
languages co-exist today generally<BR>> involve split populations that
lived without significant interaction,<BR>> effectively in separate,
monolingual societies. Only recently have<BR>> these communities begun
to mix, allowing language competition to<BR>> begin." They urged active
intervention to slow the global rate of<BR>> language decline, pointing
out that their model also predicts that<BR>> higher status will keep a
language alive. They also cite a real-life<BR>> instance where this has
happened: "The example of Québec French<BR>> demonstrates that language
decline can be slowed by strategies such as<BR>> policy-making,
education and advertising, in essence increasing an<BR>> endangered
language's status."<BR>> Similar measures may make a difference
elsewhere, they argued.<BR>><BR>><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.clipclip.org/Bevsiem/clips/detail/66166">http://www.clipclip.org/Bevsiem/clips/detail/66166</A><BR>><BR>>
--<BR>> **************************************<BR>> N.b.: Listing on
the lgpolicy-list is merely intended as a service to<BR>> its
members<BR>> and implies neither approval, confirmation nor agreement
by the owner<BR>> or sponsor of<BR>> the list as to the veracity of
a message's contents. Members who<BR>> disagree with a<BR>> message
are encouraged to post a rebuttal. (H. Schiffman, Moderator)<BR>>
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