<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">but see Stevens' dissent for a fairly detailed and what seems to me much more convincing argument supporting a militia-related interpretation of 2A<br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>____________________</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Dennis Baron</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Professor of English and Linguistics</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Department of English<span class="Apple-converted-tab"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-tab"> </span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">University of Illinois<span class="Apple-converted-tab"> </span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">608 S. Wright St.</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font face="Helvetica" size="3" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; ">Urbana, IL 61801 </font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica">office: 217-244-0568</font><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica">fax: 217-333-4321</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></font></div></span><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/debaron"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">www.uiuc.edu/goto/debaron</font></span></a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3">read the Web of Language:</font></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 238); "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><a href="http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/weboflanguage">www.uiuc.edu/goto/weboflanguage</a></font></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000EE" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br></span></font></div></span></div><div><div><br></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On Jun 28, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Slavomír Čéplö wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Why guess if we can quote. Majority opinion, p. 14:<br><br>JUSTICE STEVENS points to a study by amici supposedly<br>showing that the phrase "bear arms" was most frequently<br>used in the military context. [...] Moreover, the study's collec-<br>tion appears to include (who knows how many times) the<br>idiomatic phrase "bear arms against," which is irrelevant.<br>The amici also dismiss examples such as " 'bear arms . . .<br>for the purpose of killing game' " because those uses are<br>"expressly qualified." Linguists' Brief 24. That<br>analysis is faulty. A purposive qualifying phrase that<br>contradicts the word or phrase it modifies is unknown this<br>side of the looking glass (except, apparently, in some<br>courses on Linguistics).<br><br>And pp. 15-16:<br><br>But if "bear arms" means, as the petitioners and the dissent think,<br>the carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply<br>cannot add "for the purpose of killing game." The right "to<br>carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game"<br>is worthy of the mad hatter. Thus, these purposive quali-<br>fying phrases positively establish that "to bear arms" is<br>not limited to military use.<br><br>Scalia is a stronzo, no doubt about it. But as much as it pains me (a<br>100% bleeding-heart-pinko-liberal-elitist-commie-treehugger) to admit<br>it, there is a lot more to this decision and some of Scalia's<br>arguments even make sense. Especially when it comes to his<br>interpretation of the phrase "keep arms" (which protects the<br>individual right) and his reference to Muscarello v United States and<br>Justice Ginsburg's interpretation of the phrase "carry firearms" and<br>"bear arms" ("....for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for<br>offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another<br>person") which do not imply the participation in a military<br>organization.<br>It could have been much easier had the Framers chosen a simpler<br>wording, like, say, the one in Tennesee Constitution of 1796: "That<br>the free men of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for<br>their common defence." But, alas, they didn't. And so no matter how<br>much linguistic BS Justice Antonin 'Torture is not a punishment'<br>Scalia spouts ("no dictionary has ever adopted that definition"), as<br>someone who - unlike Scalia - believes in all individual rights and<br>opposes their curtailment by the state, I have to agree with the<br>spirit of that decision.<br>And now excuse me, I gotta go take shower. Or ten.<br><br>bulbul<br><br><br>On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Robert Lawless<br><<a href="mailto:robert.lawless@wichita.edu">robert.lawless@wichita.edu</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Believe it when it comes from Scalia. He is one of the worse jerks in a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">government of jerks.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Ronald Kephart wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 6/28/08 1:58 AM, "Dennis Baron" <<a href="mailto:debaron@illinois.edu">debaron@illinois.edu</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Always ready to insult those who disagree with his<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> interpretations, J. Scalia called the linguistic analyses<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> supporting the D.C. law "unknown this side of the looking glass<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> (except, apparently, in some courses on Linguistics)" and "worthy<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> of the mad hatter"<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dennis, Did he really say this? Do we really get this little respect?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Damn! No wonder my students don't believe me when I tell them AAVE is a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">perfectly normal form of language. It's so weird that when I first read your<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">post I thought it was satire... Then I actually looked at the brief.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As I often say: We're all doomed.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Ron<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>