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<DIV>Hal</DIV>
<DIV>Interesting term - the Mazruis' use the term 'communal' vs. 'ecumenical'.</DIV>
<DIV>I am not so sure about the second part about not using all languages for scientific purposes. It partly depends of course on what you mean by scientific - do you include indigenous knowledge? Nevertheless, I believe more communal languages can function as ecumenical languages, even as languages of science. Otherwise we will get large scale folklorization</DIV>
<DIV>Theo<BR><BR>>>> On 2009/08/22 at 12:09 AM, <haroldfs@gmail.com> wrote:<BR></DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-LEFT: 7px; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 15px; BORDER-LEFT: #050505 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f3f3f3">Theo and Don:<BR><BR>I think this issue illustrates what I think Fishman calls<BR>"folklorization" of a language--you have<BR>to be sure there's home usage of it in order to get intergenerational<BR>transfer (without which there'll<BR>be no next generation of speakers) but if other usages aren't made<BR>possible, it becomes a vehicle<BR>for the "folkloric" domain only. I can't remember where he says this,<BR>and maybe he expands on it<BR>more. I happen to think that usage of any and all languages of the<BR>world for scientific purposes is<BR>unrealistic, given the immense resources a language like English has<BR>at its disposal, but many<BR>people think badly of me for this view.<BR><BR>Hal Schiffman<BR><BR>On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Theodorus du<BR>Plessis<dplesslt.HUM@ufs.ac.za> wrote:<BR>> I agree with your approach. The functional differentiation you refer to is<BR>> indeed essential (for the reasons you provide). This is also largely the<BR>> view held by SA scholars who right on the topic (Heugh, Pluddeman,<BR>> Kamwangamalu, Webb, etc.). However, it is clearly not the view held<BR>> by politicians, populists, etc. And it is not altogether clear what the<BR>> view is of the educational advisors (who happen to be mostly British or<BR>> British-oriented). The PanSOuthAfricanLanguageBoard did also share the<BR>> position of the scholars but it is not clear what there latest position is,<BR>> largely since they have practically disappeared from the public eye and<BR>> their webpage is forever inactive.<BR>><BR>> Prof. L.T. du Plessis<BR>> Direkteur/Director<BR>> Eenheid vir Taalbestuur/Unit for Language Management<BR>> Universiteit van die Vrystaat/University of the Free State<BR>> Posbus/P.O. Box 339<BR>> BLOEMFONTEIN<BR>> 9300 RSA<BR>> Tel: +27 51-401 2405<BR>> Faks/Fax: +27 51-444 5804<BR>> E-pos/E-mail: dplesslt.hum@ufs.ac.za<BR>> Web: <A href="http://www.uovs.ac.za/etb">http://www.uovs.ac.za/etb</A><BR>><BR>>>>> On 2009/08/21 at 05:43 PM, <dzo@bisharat.net> wrote:<BR>><BR>> Thanks for this feedback. However I wonder if the kind of split approach you<BR>> mention - involving a kind of hierarchy in which languages have different<BR>> functions - is optimal in terms of education, as opposed to one in which<BR>> different languages overlap in function.<BR>><BR>> Wouldn't sociocultural identity itself be subtlely undermined to the extent<BR>> one grows up believing that one's maternal/heritage language "can't be used<BR>> to discuss science" (paraphrasing something a Malian once expressed to me re<BR>> Bambara)? Is it good for education (borad sense) to relegate some languages<BR>> to sentimental orientation while emphasizing more or less exclusively the<BR>> use of a priviledged language(s) for instrumental uses?<BR>><BR>> I know the picture is more complicated than that, but it does seem that<BR>> there would be a lot of benefit from promoting a fuller multilingualism in<BR>> which for example a first language used in local marketpklaces could also be<BR>> the vehicle for small business and even basic economics education. Or the<BR>> languages farmers speak among themselves could be used for extension on<BR>> crops, soil fertility, storage, marketing, etc. Or the languages of<BR>> sociocultural identity in changing social behavior.<BR>><BR>> This is not to say that there should not be one (or a few) countrywide<BR>> official lingua-franca(s) or a "supra-official" language (as you refer to),<BR>> but that those languages in those roles need not eclipse the vital role of<BR>> first languages in learning, creating, and communicating a full range of<BR>> knowledge.<BR>><BR>> Do discussions of language policy in South Africa touch on these issues?<BR>> They do not seem to for most of the rest of Africa, as far as I know<BR>><BR>> Don<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> From: lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu<BR>> [mailto:lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu] On Behalf Of Theodorus<BR>> du Plessis<BR>> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:44 AM<BR>> To: 'H-Net Discussion List on History and Study of West Africa'<BR>> Cc: AfricanLanguages@yahoogroups.com; 'Language Policy List'<BR>> Subject: [lg policy] RE: Behavioural changes key to fighting abuse<BR>> inLiberia's schools - UN envoy<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> RE language-in-education policy in RSA - The Nelson Mandela quote is<BR>> actually significant as it very aptly reflects the two primary South African<BR>> approaches to managing multilingualism - own / home / first language for<BR>> sociocultural identiy (sentimental orientation); English (predominant /supra<BR>> official language of RSA) for education, multicultural interaction,<BR>> business, etc. (instrumental approach).<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Prof. L.T. du Plessis<BR>> Direkteur/Director<BR>> Eenheid vir Taalbestuur/Unit for Language Management<BR>> Universiteit van die Vrystaat/University of the Free State<BR>> Posbus/P.O. Box 339<BR>> BLOEMFONTEIN<BR>> 9300 RSA<BR>> Tel: +27 51-401 2405<BR>> Faks/Fax: +27 51-444 5804<BR>> E-pos/E-mail: dplesslt.hum@ufs.ac.za<BR>> Web: <A href="http://www.uovs.ac.za/etb">http://www.uovs.ac.za/etb</A><BR>><BR>> …<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>> University of the Free State: This message and its contents are subject to a<BR>> disclaimer.<BR>> Please refer to <A href="http://www.ufs.ac.za/disclaimer">http://www.ufs.ac.za/disclaimer</A> for full details.<BR>> Universiteit van die Vrystaat:<BR>> Hierdie boodskap en sy inhoud is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig.<BR>> Volledige besonderhede is by <A href="http://www.ufs.ac.za/vrywaring">http://www.ufs.ac.za/vrywaring</A> beskikbaar.<BR>> _____________________________________________________________________<BR>><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list<BR>> lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu<BR>> To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format:<BR>> <A href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy">https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy</A>-list<BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<BR><BR>Harold F. Schiffman<BR><BR>Professor Emeritus of<BR>Dravidian Linguistics and Culture<BR>Dept. of South Asia Studies<BR>University of Pennsylvania<BR>Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305<BR><BR>Phone: (215) 898-7475<BR>Fax: (215) 573-2138<BR><BR>Email: haroldfs@gmail.com<BR><A href="http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/">http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/</A><BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>This message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list<BR>lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu<BR>To manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: <A href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy">https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy</A>-list<BR></DIV><PRE>_____________________________________________________________________
University of the Free State: This message and its contents are subject to a disclaimer.
Please refer to http://www.ufs.ac.za/disclaimer for full details.
Universiteit van die Vrystaat:
Hierdie boodskap en sy inhoud is aan 'n vrywaringsklousule onderhewig.
Volledige besonderhede is by http://www.ufs.ac.za/vrywaring beskikbaar.
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