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<font face="Geneva" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Geneva;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">The starting point of the discussion thread was a newspaper editorial which propagated a widespread misconception that the decline in the relative importance of Montreal in the period since the early 1970s was mainly, if not exclusively, a byproduct of language and cultural policies. Marc Levine mentions the "general shift of economic activity to the west" as one of the factors; it is perhaps the most significant. There is a trend that extends back more
than a century, in which the relative place of Montreal in the Canadian economy declined. The newspaper pointed to a series of transportation-related factors present in 1967: they were all destined to change radically due to shifts in trade patterns and transport technologies. A few head offices did move their headquarters under circumstances where the owners wished to portray the action as a result of separatism; again, such moves had been going on in very large numbers for the previous three decades due to the shift in the emphasis of Canadian activity from an Atlantic-oriented trading economy to a continental one. Ontario, the next province to the west, enjoyed a major advantage from its geographic situation; Toronto and its industrial belt are located near the middle of a straight line connecting New York and Chicago.<br />
<br />
In short, we have the continuation of a long-standing narrative in parts of the English-language press. If anything is perceived as going "wrong" in Quebec, pin the blame on separatism. If it goes well, don't report it. Marc's mention of the municipal leadership is a signal exception to this rule; he places (some) blame and puts it where blame is due. In the aftermath of the separatist Parti Quebecois election victories starting in 1976, there was an exodus of English speakers from Montreal; for some it was a matter of fear. But studies of decisions by young English-speaking college graduates to move to Toronto in that period show that access to a dynamic job market was more important than symbolic factors related to language. (NB the majority of young English mother tongue speakers in Quebec have excellent bilingual skills in French and English). <br />
<br />
Stacy Churchill<br />
Professor Emeritus, Modern Language Centtre, University of Toronto<br />
Distinguished Research Fellow, Bilingualism and Official Languages Institute, University of Ottawa<br />
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</font><font face="Lucida Grande" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Lucida Grande;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;"><b>Language Policy List <lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu> writes:<br />
</b></font><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Julia's comment is on target. The situation is much more nuanced than simply looking at Montreal's general economic trajectory. There are many explanations for the city's economic difficulties (deindustrialization, general shift of economic activity to west, and the flight of capital similar to that experienced by U.S. midwest/northeast cities; disastrous municipal leadership, etc.). A singular focus on "seapratism" or linguistic politics is misleading.<br />
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<br />
Moreover, as documented in studies by Vaillancourt, Levine and others, the economic status of Montreal's francophones is demonstrably better than it was in the 1960s; this has hardly been a trade off of linguistic security for economic collapse.<br />
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<br />
</font></span><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="-1" color="#000000" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:9pt;color:#000000;">Marc Levine<br />
Professor of History, Economic Development, and Urban Studies<br />
Director, Consortium for Economic Opportunity<br />
Director, Center for Canadian-American Policy Studies<br />
Senior Fellow, Center for Economic Development<br />
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee<br />
414-229-6155<br />
</font></span><a href="http://www.ced.uwm.edu" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="-1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:9pt;">www.ced.uwm.edu</font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="-1" color="#000000" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:9pt;color:#000000;"><br />
</font></span><a href="http://www.ccaps.uwm.edu" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="-1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:9pt;">www.ccaps.uwm.edu</font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="-1" color="#000000" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:9pt;color:#000000;"><br />
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<br />
On Nov 23, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Julia deBres wrote:<br />
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</font></span><div style="text-indent:0px;padding-left:45px;padding-right:0px;margin-top:0px;"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Helvetica" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><br />
</font></span><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="arial" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:arial;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">Yes, and it's a false dichotomy in any case to say that people have to choose either their language or economic prosperity. It doesn't have to be like that. <br />
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</font></span><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><b>From:</b> Christina Paulston <</font></span><a href="mailto:paulston@pitt.edu" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;"><a href="mailto:paulston@pitt.edu">paulston@pitt.edu</a></font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">><br />
<b>To:</b> Language Policy List <</font></span><a href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;"><a href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu</a></font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">><br />
<b>Sent:</b> Mon, 23 November, 2009 6:21:04 PM<br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lg policy] Canada: Decision for Quebecers<br />
<br />
Stan, you are usually pretty sensible. The Francophones did not know the impact their language policies would have on the economy when they implemented them, so you cannot say "by choice". Christina<br />
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On Nov 21, 2009, at 12:00 AM, Stan Anonby wrote:<br />
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> Montreal was prospering economically in the '60's; but a shrinking percentage of Quebec residents were speaking French. The writing was on the wall. Basically, the Quebecois chose their language/culture over economic prosperity. It's a tough call, and you've got to admire them for it. Today, threatened languages/cultures the world over usually have to make the same choice.<br />
> <br />
> Stan Anonby<br />
> <br />
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Schiffman" <</font></span><a href="mailto:hfsclpp@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;"><a href="mailto:hfsclpp@gmail.com">hfsclpp@gmail.com</a></font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">><br />
> To: "lp" <</font></span><a href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;"><a href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu</a></font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;">><br />
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 8:06 AM<br />
> Subject: [lg policy] Canada: Decision for Quebecers<br />
> <br />
> <br />
>> Decision for Quebecers<br />
>> <br />
>> <br />
>> The Ottawa CitizenNovember 19, 2009Comments (8)<br />
>> <br />
>> In 1967, Montreal was the capital of Canada. Not in name, but in most<br />
>> everything else. People from all over the globe converged on Montreal<br />
>> for what was probably the greatest world's fair, Expo 67. The business<br />
>> community, with its precious head offices, located in Montreal. It<br />
>> spoke two languages so the city was ideally suited to serve business<br />
>> and culture in Quebec and the rest of Canada. In addition to<br />
>> language, that situation arose because the Canadian highway and<br />
>> railway systems ended in Montreal. The city had the first major<br />
>> airport in Canada for flights from Europe making it a natural<br />
>> entrepôt. The Port of Montreal did big business, located between the<br />
>> St. Lawrence Seaway and the Atlantic.<br />
>> <br />
>> In addition, capital flowed from, as it was called then, St. James<br />
>> Street, universities grew in two languages, labour was plentiful, and<br />
>> a country of resources and a world of traders stood at its door.<br />
>> Montreal could speak English to North America and French to<br />
>> Europe.Then Montreal, and Quebec, gave it all away. Restrictive<br />
>> language policies made Montreal look inward. It went from being the<br />
>> major centre of Canada to the major centre of Quebec. Head offices<br />
>> fled to Toronto in the face of separatism so the delicate factors of<br />
>> production that so favoured Montreal disappeared. Why do business in<br />
>> Quebec in French, companies concluded, when you could conduct affairs<br />
>> in English in Toronto to serve the bulk of North America? Language<br />
>> policy divided Quebec from its position of trade and wealth.<br />
>> <br />
>> Now former Parti Québécois premier Jacques Parizeau is promoting his<br />
>> book on sovereignty and dragging out all the old saws about<br />
>> independence; for example he argues a national securities regulator<br />
>> would undermine Montreal's economic position. Oddly, it was people<br />
>> such as Parizeau who did that already. Quebec has an opportunity to<br />
>> prosper if Canada signs a free-trade deal with the European Union.<br />
>> Montreal could become the entrepôt again between two continents. Or it<br />
>> could answer the siren call of nationalism, looking inward. It's up to<br />
>> Quebecers to decide.<br />
>> <br />
>> </font></span><a href="http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Decision Quebecers/2239238/story.html" target="_blank"><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;">http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/Decision+Quebecers/2239238/story.html</font></span></a><span style="background-color:#d0d0d0;"><font face="Tahoma" size="+0" color="#000000" style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:12pt;color:#000000;"><br />
>> <br />
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