<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">I admit to having no insignificant amount of ignorance of the facts in this particular case, but your point here: </span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">I know I have read that back in </span></div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">time a bit all the -stan countries were more or less of the same <br>ethnicity, speaking more or less (closely?) related languages
until <br>they met up with the Russian strategy of divide and conquer. The <br>Russians deliberately standardized the dialects into as far apart as <br>possible languages and encouraged competition and paranoia between the <br>various new polities."</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">doesn't sound quite right to me. I mean, whether or not the languages are related, I doubt they are closely related, because given enough time and isolation of various groups, that's how language change works (and that's something I can claim to know something about). It's my understanding that, in fact, this area of the world is one of the most
linguistically diverse.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">I do know that Kyrgyz, Uzbek and Kazakh are Turkic languages, with their respective -stan countries, whereas Pakistan has numerous languages, many of which are Indo-Iranian, but whose individual similarities may vary quite a bit, and there are smaller groups of completely unrelated languages. </span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><span><a target="_blank"
href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=PK">http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=PK</a></span></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><span>Afghanistan is also the home of numerous Indo-Iranian languages, but has several smaller groups of various languages from various families. There are also a few Turkic languages represented there. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=AF">http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=AF</a></span></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Turkmenistan and Tajikistan are similar, though Turkmenian is Turkic and most of the widely spoken languages in Tajikistan are Indo-Iranian.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">The point is, as far as linguistic diversity (which should reflect ethnic diversity), these "-stan countries" exhibit some of the greatest on the planet. Even though there is a majority of Indo-Iranian languages, the differences between them can be as great as the difference between Spanish and French, which are by no means mutually
intelligible. And these are broken up by a strong number of Turkic languages, which are not even Indo-European!</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Christina Paulston <paulston@pitt.edu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Language Policy List <lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Mon, June 14, 2010 6:39:48 PM<br><b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lg policy] Kyrgyz Riots Spread in Apparent Ethnic Violence against Uzbeks<br></font><br>
Maybe someone can explain this to me. I know I have read that back in <br>time a bit all the -stan countries were more or less of the same <br>ethnicity, speaking more or less (closely?) related languages until <br>they met up with the Russian strategy of divide and conquer. The <br>Russians deliberately standardized the dialects into as far apart as <br>possible languages and encouraged competition and paranoia between the <br>various new polities. I understand the present conflict, part of <br>Russian strategy, but I get confused about ethnicity. Don't they more <br>or less look the same? How do they know who is who without speaking? <br>Another kind of shibboleth? Or is it national conflict and the press <br>gets it wrong? Help ! Christina<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>On Jun 13, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Harold Schiffman wrote:<br><br>> Kyrgyz
Riots Spread in Apparent Ethnic Violence against Uzbeks<br>> By MICHAEL SCHWIRTZ<br>> Published: June 13, 2010<br>><br>><br>><br>> Zarip Toroyev/Associated Press<br>><br>><br>> Related<br>> Times Topic: Kyrgyzstan The official death toll from four days of<br>> clashes neared 100 people, though the unrest seemed so widespread that<br>> the figure is likely to go far higher. Reports from the region said<br>> bands of ethnic Kyrgyz were seeking out Uzbeks, setting fire to their<br>> homes and killing them.<br>><br>> Thousands of Uzbeks have fled to the nearby border with Uzbekistan,<br>> and the authorities were said to have lost control of Osh,<br>> Kyrgyzstan’s second largest city.<br>><br>> On Saturday, the fragile Kyrgyz provisional government asked<br>> neighboring Russia to send in peacekeeping troops, but Russia, which<br>> has a small military base in the north and has been a
political patron<br>> of this former Soviet republic, said only that it would consider the<br>> request.<br>><br>> .<br>><br>> “The situation in the Osh region has spun out of control,”<br>> Kyrgyzstan’s acting president, Roza Otunbayeva, said Saturday.<br>> “Attempts to establish a dialogue have failed, and fighting and<br>> rampages are continuing. We need outside forces to quell<br>> confrontation.”<br>><br>> A spokeswoman for President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia said that no<br>> decision on providing military aid would be made until at least<br>> Monday, when Russia will consult with other members of the Collective<br>> Security Treaty Organization, a regional security alliance of former<br>> Soviet republics.<br>><br>> “A decision about deploying peacekeeping forces to Kyrgyzstan can only<br>> be made collectively with all members of the C.S.T.O.,” the<br>> spokeswoman,
Natalya Timakova, said Saturday evening. She also said<br>> that Russia was continuing to ship humanitarian assistance, including<br>> medicine, to Kyrgyzstan.<br>><br>> It remained unclear what started the violence, which threatens to<br>> undermine the already fragile provisional government that took power<br>> in April after rioting deposed the country’s president. The interim<br>> government has never fully established control in parts of the south,<br>> where supporters of the ousted president, Kurmanbek S. Bakiyev, have<br>> frequently clashed with those loyal to the new government.<br>><br>> The country is host to an important United States military base on the<br>> outskirts of the capital, Bishkek, that is used to support the NATO<br>> mission in Afghanistan.<br>><br>> On Saturday, heavily armed gangs battled on the streets of Osh,<br>> burning and looting as they rampaged through the
city.<br>><br>> “It was raining ash the whole afternoon, big pieces of black and white<br>> ash,” said Andrea Berg, a Human Rights Watch employee holed up her<br>> apartment in the city. “The city is just burning. It’s totally out of<br>> control.”<br>><br>> The rioters at one point commandeered two armored personnel carriers<br>> from troops stationed in the city, said Timur Sharshenaliyev, a<br>> spokesman for the government there. Soldiers were able to take only<br>> one back.<br>><br>> The provisional government passed a decree giving the police and<br>> soldiers permission to open fire on rioters to prevent attacks on<br>> civilians and government buildings, according to a statement on the<br>> government’s Web site.<br>><br>> The authorities also ordered a partial mobilization of military forces<br>> throughout the country, suggesting the government feared the spread of<br>>
violence to other regions. Soldiers with automatic weapons gathered at<br>> the Bishkek airport early Sunday morning awaiting transport to Osh,<br>> some downing a few vodka shots before they set off.<br>><br>> Yelena K. Bayalinova, a spokeswoman for the Kyrgyz Health Ministry,<br>> said Saturday that in addition to the killings, nearly 1,000 people<br>> had been wounded, most with gunshot wounds.<br>><br>> The recent politically inspired clashes in the region have reopened a<br>> historic ethnic fault line, with gangs of heavily armed Kyrgyz youths<br>> clashing with members of the region’s sizeable Uzbek minority. Much of<br>> Mr. Bakiyev’s base in the region, his ancestral home, is Kyrgyz, while<br>> many Uzbeks support the new government.<br>><br>> Mr. Sharshenaliyev, the government spokesman in Osh, said on Saturday<br>> that the military had opened a corridor to allow Uzbek women, children<br>>
and the elderly to escape across the border, though he said he did not<br>> know whether Uzbekistan was prepared to receive them. The Associated<br>> Press reported that several children were killed in a stampede at one<br>> border crossing.<br>><br>> Uzbekistan said it was “extremely alarmed and concerned” about the<br>> situation. The Uzbek Foreign Ministry said in a statement that<br>> violence against Uzbeks was being carried out in a manner calculated<br>> to provoke ethnic conflict.<br>><br>> The Kremlin said that Mr. Medvedev spoke Saturday with the presidents<br>> of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan about the violence. Russia also sent a<br>> plane to Kyrgyzstan to provide humanitarian aid and medical<br>> assistance, as well as to evacuate the wounded.<br>><br>> Russia and the United States have in recent years been jockeying for<br>> influence in Kyrgyzstan, and deploying soldiers there could
help<br>> solidify Russia’s foothold. Russia has frequently chafed at the<br>> American military presence in what it considers its sphere of<br>> influence.<br>><br>> Russia appeared to support the protest movement that led to Mr.<br>> Bakiyev’s ouster, and it has sought closer relations with Kyrgyzstan’s<br>> new authorities.<br>><br>> Officials of the provisional government frequently travel to Moscow<br>> for talks with high-ranking Russians, including Mr. Medvedev and Prime<br>> Minister Vladimir V. Putin.<br>><br>> Under Mr. Bakiyev, the Kyrgyz government appeared to favor the United<br>> States. Mr. Bakiyev incensed the Kremlin when he reneged on a tacit<br>> agreement to close the American base in exchange for more Russian aid.<br>><br>> The provisional government took control after riots forced Mr. Bakiyev<br>> from power on April 7. In those riots more than 80 people were
killed<br>> when the police and presidential guards opened fire on demonstrators,<br>> who had gathered in Bishkek to protest government corruption and<br>> rising utility prices.<br>><br>> The new government, though unelected and made up of an uneasy alliance<br>> of political forces, quickly established control over the capital and<br>> the north of the country, but not in the south.<br>><br>> The south of Kyrgyzstan is part of the Ferghana Valley, a fertile<br>> strip of land that has a long history of interethnic strife and<br>> includes parts of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Similar violence between<br>> Kyrgyz and Uzbeks in Osh in 1990 left hundreds dead and only abated<br>> when the Soviet government sent in troops.<br>><br>><br>> Clifford J. Levy contributed reporting from Moscow.<br>><br><span>> <a target="_blank"
href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14kyrgyz.html?hp">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14kyrgyz.html?hp</a></span><br>><br>> -- <br>> **************************************<br>> N.b.: Listing on the lgpolicy-list is merely intended as a service to<br>> its members<br>> and implies neither approval, confirmation nor agreement by the owner<br>> or sponsor of the list as to the veracity of a message's contents.<br>> Members who disagree with a message are encouraged to post a rebuttal,<br>> and to write directly to the original sender of any offensive message.<br>> A copy of this may be forwarded to this list as well. (H. Schiffman,<br>> Moderator)<br>><br>> For more information about the lgpolicy-list, go to<br>> <a href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/" target="_blank">https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/</a><br>> listinfo/lgpolicy-list<br>>
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