<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=us-ascii" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18928"></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203542114-13042011><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Dear Aditi</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203542114-13042011>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You are right.
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
/><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Pakistan</st1:place></st1:country-region>'s constitution is explicit
about Urdu and Islam. Ours is the only constitution in the world, which says
that anyone insulting Prophet Muhammad must be hanged. With this awesome power
of Islam and things Islamic who will speak for . . . .?</SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN
class=203542114-13042011>Regards.</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN
class=203542114-13042011>Abbas Zaidi</SPAN></SPAN></P></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV dir=ltr lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu
[mailto:lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>aditi
ghosh<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:19 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Language
Policy List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [lg policy] Punjabi etc.<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Dear Abbas Zaidi,
<DIV>Even if census data is not manipulated, It may be worth while to look into
the overt and covert language policies in state level and below, that may have
encouraged this attitude in younger generation. Both Pakistan and <FONT
class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px"
class=Apple-style-span> State of </SPAN></FONT><EM
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Brunei
Darussalam</EM><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px" class=Apple-style-span> are Islamic republics.
There may be a hidden urge to identify with the dominant religion through
proclamation of Urdu language, which is perhaps seen as a representative of
Islam, as opposed to Punjabi, which is associated
with Sikhism. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px" class=Apple-style-span>This is of course my general
intuitive understanding based on your observations and can only be confirmed by
systematic research.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px" class=Apple-style-span>regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 15px" class=Apple-style-span>aditi <BR></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 13 April 2011 18:47, Zaidi <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:manoo@brunet.bn">manoo@brunet.bn</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Hello Professor Schiffman<BR>Once I wrote that in India
Hindi was written in the Gurumukhi script. I got<BR>many angry emails from
Indian Punjabi Hindus complaining that I had ignored<BR>them.<BR><BR>The fact
is that in Pakistan, Punjabi is written in the Persian script (Dr<BR>Tariq
Rahman will refine my statement with his "nastaliq" comment). In
India<BR>Punjabi is written in two scripts: Gurumukhi and Devanagari. The
former is<BR>associated with the Sikhs (their Holy Garanth is written in
Gurumukhi,<BR>though many sociolinguists will say that it is not exactly
Gurumukhi, but<BR>Eastern Punjabi), and Devanagari is associated with the
Hindus. I have read<BR>somewhere that Gurumukhi and Devanagari scripts
symbolize language and<BR>religious identity for the Sikhs and Hindus,
respectively. As far as Punjabi<BR>in Pakistan is concerned, this is not the
case.<BR><BR>In Pakistan, data are not manipulated in favor of Urdu. It is the
Punjabis<BR>themselves (overwhelmingly the younger generations) who claim Urdu
to be<BR>their mother tongue. Mansoor (1993) in her sociolinguistic study in
Lahore<BR>found this situation. In my study of the Punjabis living in
Brunei<BR>Darussalam, 98 percent of second generation Punjabis said that their
mother<BR>tongue was Urdu as opposed to 2 percent first generation respondents
who<BR>said Urdu was their mother tongue.<BR><BR>You will be surprised to find
out how Punjabis hate their language.<BR>Regards.<BR>Abbas Zaidi<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu</A><BR>[mailto:<A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list-bounces@groups.sas.upenn.edu</A>]
On Behalf Of Harold<BR>Schiffman<BR>Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:31
AM<BR>To: lp<BR>Subject: [lg policy] Punjabi etc.<BR><BR>Dear
Christina,<BR><BR> I think that this raises an issue I've mentioned
on occasion, that is, the<BR>manipulation of data by census authorities.<BR>My
focus was on data manipulation in the Indian Census, which tries to<BR>inflate
figures for Hindi and deflate others by ignoring small languages<BR>that might
want to consider themselves as separate languages, and conflating<BR>them with
Hindi to raise the percentages for Hindi. The goal is to show<BR>that
the percentage of speakers of Hindi is rising. This means that
all<BR>sorts of other small languages, e.g. the Todas and Kotas of the
Nilgiris,<BR>don't get conflated with other majority languages like Kannada or
Tamil, but<BR>just get ignored.<BR>Other census authorities in other countries
do this, do--mostly by ignoring<BR>certain groups, or not asking questions
about language. In the US,<BR>questions about German popped up on a
special census<BR>(non-decennial) in 1916, just before the US entered World
War I. Again in<BR>1940, questions about language appeared, then
disappeared for decades.<BR><BR>I guess maybe that's going on in Pakistan to
inflate the percentages for<BR>Urdu, which we all know are very low, and
minimize figures for other<BR>languages. Panjabi has always been low man
on the totem pole in that<BR>region--I've just finished editing a volume of
papers on lg. policy in<BR>Afghanistan and its neighbors, and one of the
contributors shows how Panjabi<BR>was ignored and denigrated by the British,
in favor of Urdu in the portion<BR>of India that is now Pakistan.<BR>So I
think there's an "inferiority complex" among the Panjabis, which
Zaidi<BR>mentions in the Gowanus article he attached to one of his messages.
He<BR>mentions that Panjabi in India is even written with nagari script;
I thought<BR>it was written in
Gurumukhi...<BR><BR>HS<BR><BR>--<BR>**************************************<BR>N.b.:
Listing on the lgpolicy-list is merely intended as a service to its<BR>members
and implies neither approval, confirmation nor agreement by the<BR>owner or
sponsor of the list as to the veracity of a message's contents.<BR>Members who
disagree with a message are encouraged to post a rebuttal, and<BR>to write
directly to the original sender of any offensive message.<BR> A copy of
this may be forwarded to this list as well. (H.
Schiffman,<BR>Moderator)<BR><BR>For more information about the lgpolicy-list,
go to<BR><A href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/"
target=_blank>https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/</A><BR>listinfo/lgpolicy-list<BR>*******************************************<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>This
message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu</A><BR>To
manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format:<BR><A
href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list"
target=_blank>https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list</A><BR><BR></DIV></DIV>__________
Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature<BR>database
6035 (20110412) __________<BR><BR>The message was checked by ESET NOD32
Antivirus.<BR><BR><A href="http://www.eset.com"
target=_blank>http://www.eset.com</A><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV
class=h5><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>This
message came to you by way of the lgpolicy-list mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu">lgpolicy-list@groups.sas.upenn.edu</A><BR>To
manage your subscription unsubscribe, or arrange digest format: <A
href="https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list"
target=_blank>https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/lgpolicy-list</A><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Dr Aditi Ghosh
<DIV>Assistant Professor<BR>
<DIV>Department of Linguistics</DIV>
<DIV>Calcutta University</DIV>
<DIV>87/1 College Street</DIV>
<DIV>Kolkata -700073</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>