<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Jack Sidnell and I also expanded on the person reference and address system in Vietnamese, including first person — see the link to JRAI (2013): <a href="http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-9655.12053/full" class="">http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1467-9655.12053/full</a><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div class="">------------------------------</div><div class="">Merav Shohet, Ph.D.</div><div class="">Assistant Professor</div><div class="">Department of Anthropology</div><div class="">Boston University</div><div class="">232 Bay State Road</div><div class="">Boston MA 02215</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:shohetm@bu.edu" class="">shohetm@bu.edu</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 28, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Jim Wilce <<a href="mailto:Jim.Wilce@nau.edu" class="">Jim.Wilce@nau.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">It is good that the discussion as shifted from an exclusive focus on pronouns to a broader discussion of person-reference systems. In Eloquence in Trouble, I describe the presence or absence of first-person pronouns in so-called "pro-drop" languages like Bangla as marked, and coinciding with other forms of marked behavior locally referred to as 'pagal' ('mad'), full of 'amitto' (I-ness).<span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">"Zero person" constructions in Finnish and other languages are even more interesting. In Finnish they involve replacing overt first-person forms of reference with verbs marked for third-person but lacking any overt subject. Nor is a subject NP accessible via anaphora. The construction works rather more like </span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">French "on" or English "one," with this huge caveat—every Finnish three-year-old uses '</span>nolla persoona' (zero person) and it has none of the elitist indexical value of English "one." </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class="">Finnish zero person is used in such contexts as 12-step meetings, which in Finland seem to be "group therapy" sessions facilitated by savvy therapists who avoid the blaming value of 'you' and the 'just me' value of 'I' and produce such utterances as "[blank] sometimes feels like having a drink" (Halonen 2008; see also Laitinen 2006 and Helasvuo and Laitinen 2006.) </div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Halonen, Mia</div><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" class=""></p><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> 2008 Person Reference as a Device for Constructing Experience as Typical in Group Therapy.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">In</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Conversation Analysis and Psychotherapy. A. Peräkylä, C. Antaki, S. Vehviläinen, and I. Leudar, eds. Pp. 139-151. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.</div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Laitinen, Lea</div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> 2006 Zero Person in Finnish: A Grammatical Resource for Construing Human Evidence. <i class="">In</i> Grammar from the Human Perspective: Case, Space and Person in Finnish. M.-L. Helasvuo and L. Campbell, eds. Pp. 209-232 Amsterdam: Benjamins.</div></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class="">Helasvuo, Marja-Liisa, and Lea Laitinen</div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36px; text-indent: -36px; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: Cambria;" class=""> 2006 Person in Finnish: Paradigmatic and Syntagmatic Relations in Interaction.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">In</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Grammar from the Human Perspective: Case, Space and Person in Finnish. M.-L. Helasvuo and L. Campbell, eds. Pp. 173-208. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.</div></div><br class=""><br class=""><div style="" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" style="display: inline-block; width: 792.8125px;" class=""><div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" class=""><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Linganth <<a href="mailto:linganth-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">linganth-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Adam Harr <<a href="mailto:aharr@stlawu.edu" class="">aharr@stlawu.edu</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 28, 2017 7:53 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jo Anne Kleifgen; Linguistic Anthropology Discussion Group (<a href="mailto:LINGANTH@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">LINGANTH@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>)<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Linganth] First person pronouns</font><div class=""> </div></div><div class=""><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt;" class="">Dear all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Michael Ewing has a terrific paper on first and second person reference in Indonesian, titled "Localizing Person Reference Among Indonesian Youth." Ewing shows that colloquial varieties of Indonesian have an open system of self-reference that hip young people (as well as unhip and not so young people, I'm sure) use to position themselves socially. You can find the paper in this collection: <a href="https://www.tilburguniversity.edu/upload/1ade6aa9-8b51-43a1-9efc-b7290a7a17bd_TPCS_162_Special%20Issue.pdf" target="_blank" id="LPlnk564351" style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">https://www.tilburguniversity.edu/upload/1ade6aa9-8b51-43a1-9efc-b7290a7a17bd_TPCS_162_Special%20Issue.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">best,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Adam Harr</div><div class="">Assistant Professor</div><div class="">Department of Anthropology</div><div class="">St. Lawrence University</div><div class=""><br class=""><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;" class=""><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF798461" style="direction: ltr;" class=""><font face="Tahoma" size="2" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Linganth [<a href="mailto:linganth-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">linganth-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>] on behalf of Jo Anne Kleifgen [<a href="mailto:kleifgen@gmail.com" class="">kleifgen@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 27, 2017 3:34 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Linguistic Anthropology Discussion Group (<a href="mailto:LINGANTH@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">LINGANTH@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>)<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Linganth] First person pronouns<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">Hello all,<br class=""></div>I had replied to Cyndi directly to her email, but, given the interest, I'm sharing this with all of you:<br class=""><br class="">I worked on the Vietnamese person-reference system in the context of workplace discourse in a California circuit board manufacturing plant. Attached are a few references; I published an ethnography in 2013 that offers in detail the work I did with the company over several years. I also suggest a reference by Luong, which I relied on heavily as I started my work. Here's one sample of data from Luong, which got me going, and which I cited in my book:<br class=""></div>-----<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 32pt 0.0001pt 0in; line-height: 18.399999618530273px;"><span id="cid:ii_15e25278dcaa3fa6"><Screen Shot 2017-08-27 at 2.23.18 PM.png></span><br class=""></p><div style="margin: 12pt 32pt 0.0001pt 0in;" class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0.75in 0.0001pt 0.25in;" class=""><span style="font-family: NiLienThuyen;" class=""><span id="cid:ii_15e252343ad83df9"><Screen Shot 2017-08-27 at 2.19.16 PM.png></span><br class=""></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 12pt 0.5in 0.0001pt 0.25in;"><span style="font-family: NiLienThuyen;" class="">That day<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">elder brother</u><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(employee) claimed illness;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">younger sibling</u><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(supervisor) had to work in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">elder brother's</u>place the whole morning, does<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">elder brother</u><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>remember?</span></p><div style="margin: 0in 1in 0.0001pt 0.75in; text-align: right;" class="">1990, p. 14 (underline added)</div><br class="">-----<br class=""></div><br class="">Jo Anne<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Gaudio, Rudolf<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:Rudolf.Gaudio@purchase.edu" target="_blank" class="">Rudolf.Gaudio@purchase.edu</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Hi Cyndi,<br class=""><br class="">Kira Hall and Veronica O’Donovan (1996) analyze hijras’ use of feminine and masculine first-person singular pronominal forms in Hindi.<br class=""><br class="">Hall, K., & V. O’Donovan (1996). Shifting gender positions among Hindi-speaking hijras. In Janet Bing, Victoria Bergvall & Alice Freed (Eds.), Rethinking Language and Gender Research: Theory and Method. London: Longman. 228-226.<br class=""><br class="">Best,<br class="">Rudi<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Rudolf P. Gaudio<br class="">Associate Professor of Anthropology and Media, Society & the Arts<br class="">Purchase College, State University of New York<br class=""><div class="m_-365905624036801056HOEnZb"><div class="m_-365905624036801056h5"><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Aug 24, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Cynthia Dunn <<a href="mailto:cyndi.dunn@UNI.EDU" target="_blank" class="">cyndi.dunn@UNI.EDU</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Hello all. I am writing a piece talking about the use of pronouns in self-representation and I wanted to ask if people are aware of languages besides Japanese which offer speakers a choice of more than one option for singular, first-person pronouns (based on things like gender, situational formality etc). If you are, I would appreciate a brief grammatical outline of the system and/or direction to an appropriate reference work. You can contact me directly off the list at:<a href="mailto:Cyndi.Dunn@uni.edu" target="_blank" class="">Cyndi.Dunn@uni.edu</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Cyndi Dunn<br class="">Professor of Anthropology<br class="">Dept. of Sociology, Anthropology & Criminology<br class="">University of Northern Iowa<br class="">Cedar Falls IA 50614-0513 U.S.A.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="tel:%28319%29%20273-6251" value="+13192736251" target="_blank" class="">(319) 273-6251</a><br class=""><a href="mailto:Cyndi.Dunn@uni.edu" target="_blank" class="">Cyndi.Dunn@uni.edu</a><br class=""></div></div><div class="m_-365905624036801056HOEnZb"><div class="m_-365905624036801056h5">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">Linganth mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Linganth@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">Linganth@listserv.linguistlist<wbr class="">.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/linganth" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.o<wbr class="">rg/mailman/listinfo/linganth</a><br class=""><br class="">______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">Linganth mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:Linganth@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" class="">Linganth@listserv.linguistlist<wbr class="">.org</a><br class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/linganth" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.o<wbr class="">rg/mailman/listinfo/linganth</a><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Linganth mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="mailto:Linganth@listserv.linguistlist.org" class="">Linganth@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/linganth" class="">http://listserv.linguistlist.org/mailman/listinfo/linganth</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>