case in personal pronouns

[Willy Vandeweghe]

Right Dan. The phenomena you mention (subject form after conjunction, objective forms as subject) also occur in Dutch (dialects), and also in West-Flemish. These are dealt with in Katie Wales' book, and she gives some references. They most probably are in some way connected with the phenomenon of subject form directly after the preposition.

Willy
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan I. Slobin 
  To: Willy Vandeweghe ; LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 2:14 PM
  Subject: Re: case in personal pronouns


  This has been widespread in American English, probably in the last half century, but generally only for conjoined pronouns with "I" as the second in the conjunction--e.g., she gave it to him and I; if they ever go with you and I again, etc.  This has been much discussed in the literature.  But I don't recall ever having heard the "subject" form directly after a pronoun (e.g., *she gave it to I, *they promised to go out with I)  Conversely, also much discussed in the literature, is the opposite system in conjoined subject pronouns--e.g., me and him always argue.  There have been a number of interesting, sometimes insightful discussions of these phenomena, but I can't immediately cite the literature.

  Sincerely,
  Dan Slobin

  At 10:59 PM 3/25/03 +0100, Willy Vandeweghe wrote:

    Dear all
     
    As Jeroen Wiedenhof is raising the issue of personal pronouns, I would like to add a query conderning personal pronouns of my own. At the moment Magda Devos and I are studying a phenomenon of pronoun substitution in West Flemish (a Dutch dialect). As a result of a recent evolution (in the last decades), some varieties of this dialect (and increasingly more of them) tend to substitute the objective form following a  preposition by a subject form. This results in sentences like:
     
    Hij heeft iets tegen ikke
    He holds sth against  I
    (normally: Hij heeft iets mij - against me)
     
    Ik klappe nie meer tegen gij
    I don't talk to you anymore
    (normally: Ik klappe nie meer tegen u - in English this opposition is neutralized in one 'you'-form)
     
    Ze zijn kwaad op wijder
    They are mad at we
    (normally: Ze zijn kwaad op ons - at us)
     
    1 Are there among you who know of other languages or dialects exhibiting this kind of behaviour (there are some dialects in S-W England, according to Katie Wales 1996. Personal pronouns in present-day English. Cambridge: CUPress.)
    2 Among the factors that seem to be involved, there is stress (case contrast is replaced by stress contrast), but this most probably is not the whole story. Does anyone  know of other accounts for this phenomenon in relevant literature?
     
    Thanks
     
    Willy Vandeweghe
    Department of Translators & Interpreters
    Hogeschool Gent
    Groot-Brittanniëlaan 45
    9000 Gent (Belgium)
     
    tel. ++ 32 9 224 97 31
    willy.vandeweghe at hogent.be
     
     


  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Dan I. Slobin
  Richard and Rhoda Goldman Professor
  in Undergraduate and Interdisciplinary Studies

  Department of Psychology
  3210 Tolman #1650
  University of California
  Berkeley, CA 94720-1650, USA

  1-510-642-7090 [office]  / -5292 [Dept.]
  1-510-848-1769 [home]
  slobin at socrates.berkeley.edu
  fax: 1-510-642-5293
  web page: http://ihd.berkeley.edu [Click on "Research"]
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lingtyp/attachments/20030325/26b82448/attachment.htm>