threat

Mon Jan 11 16:46:52 UTC 2010

What about the equivalent of the famous ?Nu pagadi!? (Well, you wait!)  
from the cult Russian cartoon Volk i Zajats (Wolf and Hare) in other  
languages? (I am not sure how cult it was outside the Soviet Union?)

?Nu pagadi!? is translated into Polish as ?Ja ci pokaze? and in fact  
?Ja ci pokaze? (1) is used far more often than ?I will teach you? or  
?I?ll give you (x)? although these two are possible.

You can use ?Ja ci pokaze? without indirect object which is normally  
required by the verb:

(1)
Ja     ci       pokaz-e!
I.NOM  you.DAT  show-1.SG.FUT
?I?ll show you!?

You can also use it with a complement where the verb is in infinitive  
as in (2) or where it is nominalized (with a nominative ending) as in  
(3)

(2)
Ja     ci       pokaze         chodzi-c  po      naszym        ogrodku
I.NOM  you.DAT  show-1.SG.FUT  walk-INF  along   our-M.SG.LOC  garden-M.SG.LOC

(3)
Ja     ci       pokaze          chodz-eni-e    po     nasz-ym
I.NOM  you.DAT  show-1.SG.FUT   walk-NMLZ-NOM  along  our-M.SG.LOC

ogrodk-u
garden-M.SG.LOC

or where the complement is a noun phrase:

(4)
Ja      ci       pokaze          telewizor!
I.NOM   you.DAT  show-1.SG.FUT   TV.Acc
Lit. ?I will show you a TV?

? if, for instance, mother says something like that to her child the  
child knows there is a slap (or some other form of punishment) on its  
way?

The equivalent of  ?I will  give you? (X) can be used without indirect object:

(5)
Ja     ci      dam!
I.NOM  you.DAT give-1.SG.FUT

It can substitute ?Ja ci pokaze!? in both (3) and (4) ? i.e. with both  
types of complements.

The equivalent of  ?I will teach you? is:

(6)
Ja     cie     naucz-e!
I.NOM  you.ACC teach/learn-1SG.FUT.

You can use ?Ja cie naucze? with infitinival or nominalized complement  
(with an accusative ending) as in (2) and (3) but not with a noun  
phrase.

There is also a nice idiom used in situations like the one with  
walking in someone else?s garden:

(7)
Ja     ci       pokaze           gdzie    rak-i            zimuj-a
I.Nom  you.Dat  show-1.SG.FUT    where    crayfish.PL.NOM  winter-3.PL.PREAS

?I?ll show you where crayfishes winter!?

And an equivalent of ?I?ll teach you a lesson? would be:

Ja         ci        dam           nauczke!
I.Nom      you.DAT   give-1.SG.FUT lesson-FEM.SG.ACC.

Regards,
Anna

Quoting Nicholas Ostler <nostler at CHIBCHA.DEMON.CO.UK>:

> This is like the "I'll give you X" threatening response, where X
> repeats the last speaker's words. As in:
>
> "Sod off!"
> "I'll give you 'sod off'. Just you come back here and say that."
>
> It also seems to underlie a memorable series of responses in Peter Cook
> and Dudley Moore's "Father and Son" sketch in their "Not Only.. But
> Also" series in the 1960s. Not exactly grammatical or idiomatic, but so
> much the funnier. E.g.
>
> Dudley:
> What time o' night d'you call this, then?
> Peter:
> Four o'clock in the morning, father.
> Dudley:
> I'll four-o'clock-in-the-morning you, my boy!
>
> ...
>
> Peter:
> Father, I don't know why you go on about the drains - you know
> perfectly well you retired at thirty-one, and you haven't been down
> there since.
> Dudley:
> I'll I haven't-been-down-there-since you, my boy!
>
> ...
> Dudley:
> ... Did I fight in the war to hear you abuse me in such a way? Eh? Did I?
> Peter:
> I've no idea, father - if indeed you did fight in the war.
> Dudley:
> If indeed I did fight? I'll if-indeed-I-did-fight you, my boy!
>
> ...
> Dudley:
> ... She worshipped the ground I walked on.
> Peter:
> She liked the ground, but she didn't care for you, father.
> Dudley:
> I'll she-didn't-care-for-you you, my boy!
>
> (See the whole script at http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk/fatherandson.html
> And the original recording is at
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk9zyn9w67A&feature=related
> althopugh curiously with a video acted by different players.)
>
> Nicholas
>
>
> Peter Trudgill wrote:
>> Still extremely current, Paul!
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> At 14:32 +0100 11/1/10, Paul Hopper wrote:
>>> Dik,
>>>
>>> Is the Dutch threat construction accompanied by a special intonation, like
>>> the English "_I'll_ teach him, etc."?
>>>
>>> My mother used to say things like "I'll give you throw the paper"
>>> (scolding the newspaper boy, who has thrown the paper onto the porch
>>> instead of walking up the steps with it). This could be older British
>>> English, as I haven't heard anyone say it for many years -- I don't know
>>> if it's still current. The use of 'give' recalls the Russian dative in
>>> Alexander's examples.
>>>
>>> - Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, January 11, 2010 07:50, Bakker, D. wrote:
>>>> Dear Alexander,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dutch does not have, I think, such a direct version of a change of
>>>> semantic roles, making it a threat. A construction that I can   
>>>> think of will
>>>> leave the threatened individual in the original agent position, but will
>>>> turn it into a non-final construction as the argument of the verb leren
>>>> to teach', in future tense, and typically with the speaker as the agent:
>>>>
>>>> (about the cat of the neighbours);
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hij loopt in mijn tuin
>>>> It walks in my garden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ik zal hem leren in mijn tuin te lopen!
>>>> I will teach it to walk in my garden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or the filler of the agent role of 'to teach' may
>>>> be the demonstrative dat 'that', which then refers to the kind of
>>>> punishment considered by the speaker for the wrongdoing:
>>>>
>>>> Ik zal de tuinslang op hem zetten. Dat zal hem leren
>>>> in mijn tuin te lopen. I will turn the hose on it. That will teach it to
>>>> walk in my garden.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dik Bakker
>>>> Dept. of General Linguistics
>>>> Universities of Amsterdam & Lancaster
>>>> tel (+44) 1524 64975 & (+31) 20 5253864
>>>> http://home.medewerker.uva.nl/d.bakker/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Societas Linguistica Europaea
>>>> Secretary/Treasurer
>>>> http://www.societaslinguistica.eu/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul J. Hopper
>>> Department of English
>>> Carnegie Mellon University
>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> Nicholas Ostler
> Chairman, Foundation for Endangered Languages
> Registered Charity: England & Wales 1070616
> www.ogmios.org
> nostler at chibcha.demon.co.uk

-- 
Anna Martowicz

PhD student at
Theoretical & Applied Linguistics/
Language Evolution & Computation Research Unit
University of Edinburgh

http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/~s0681634/

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