betting questionniare

[Hannu Tommola]

Dear Anna,

you already received the essential Finnish data from Matti; however,  
if you are interested in variation, here you are. This is entirely  
colloquial Finnish, with some additional notes on etymology of  
'bet(ting)' etc.

> Questionnaire
>
> Please give the name of your language (including variety).

Finnish (Colloquial)

> Here is a little scenario: I ask my mother to do something. She may  
> remember; she may forget. I say to you:
>
> "I bet you fifty dollars she forgets"
>
> Please answer the following questions.
>
> (1) How would you express the sequence in quotes most naturally in  
> your language? Please gloss your example.

Viiskymppiä vetoa, että se unohtaa

or

Viiskymppisestä vetoa, että se unohtaa

Viis+kymppi-ä / Viis+kymppi-se-stä veto-a,    että se  unohta-a
5+10-PART        5+10-DIM-ELA       bet-PART that 3sg forget-3SG.PRES

> Betting is often done on sports. Here is a second little scenario:
>
> Me and my brother are watching a football match between Manchester  
> United and Barcelona. He says that Manchester United will win. But I  
> think Barcelona will win. I say to him:
>
> "I bet you fifty dollars Barcelona win"
>
> (2) How would you express the sequence in quotes? Please gloss your example.

Viiskyt taalaa vetoa, että Barcelona voittaa
Viiskyt taala-a      veto-a,    että Barcelona voitta-a
50       buck-PART bet-PART that Barcelona win-3SG.PRES

> (3) If your answer to (1) or (2) used a word specifically meaning  
> 'bet' or 'to bet', does this word have any senses other than the  
> betting sense?

As Matti pointed out, there is a frequent homonymous word _veto_  
derived from the verb _vetää_ 'to pull', and that ”many speakers  
perceive them as one polysemous word” is obviously connected with the  
semantically related uses. This fact has probably also favoured the  
assimilation of the word _veto_ borrowed from Germanic in the sense  
of, for example, ’bet’, cf. Swedish _vad_ ’(e.g. in: _slå vad_ /"hit  
bet"/ ’to bet’), _vädja_ ’to appeal’ and German _Wette_, _wetten_.

> (4) If your answer to (1) mentioned 'I' and 'you', is it also  
> possible to express the same meaning without mentioning 'I', without  
> mentioning 'you', or without mentioning either? If so, please give  
> examples.

It is colloquial not to mention either, but in official / formal /  
written discourse the first-person-speaker is expressed (often  
incorporated in the inflected verb).

> (5) Is there a conventional way of agreeing to a bet in your  
> language? In English, bets are conventionally accepted with  
> expressions such as "Done!" or "You're on!"

Kiinni          vet-i!
closed/shut  draw-3SG.PRET
’agreed! accepted!’ or the like

This might be a bit old-fashioned expression, but it used to be the  
standard way (obs! the use of exactly the verb for ’draw’, i.e. the  
verb that the noun for ’bet’ used in (1) and (2)).

> (6) Can a construction similar to the one in your answer to (1) be  
> used to show how strongly one believes a proposition to be true? For  
> example, in English it is possible to say the following with no  
> gambling intention.
>
> I bet you anything they won't come
>
> I bet you they won't come
>
> I bet they won't come
>
> If this is possible in your language, could you provide a glossed  
> example. If it is not possible, how would you express the same  
> meaning?

(Mä) lyön vaikka mitä vetoa, ettei ne tuu
(Mä) lyö-n     vaikka   mi-tä   veto-a,  ett-ei   ne    tuu
   I  hit-1SG  though  what-PART bet-PART that-NEG they come.CONNEGATIVE
’I bet you anything they won't come’

(Mä) lyön vetoa, ettei ne tuu
(Mä) lyö-n     veto-a,    ettei   ne    tuu
   I     hit-1SG bet-PART that-NEG they come.CONNEGATIVE
’I bet they won't come’

The same meaning without a ’betting’ construction is expressed, e.g. by:

Mä oon satavarma, ettei ne tuu
Mä o-on      sata+varma, ett-ei   ne    tuu
  I   be-1SG  100+sure    that-NEG they come.CONNEGATIVE
’I bet you anything they won't come’

Mä oon varma, ettei ne tuu
Mä o-on     varma,   ett-ei   ne    tuu
I   be-1SG  sure     that-NEG they come.CONNEGATIVE
’I bet (you) they won't come’

> (7) How would you express the following in your language? Please  
> give glossed examples.
>
> I'll give you fifty dollars

Mä annan sulle viiskyt taalaa
Mä anna-n    su-lle   viiskyt taala-a
  I give-1SG thou-ALL  50      buck-PART

> I promise you fifty dollars

Mä lupaan sulle viiskyt taalaa
Mä lupaa-n        su-lle      viiskyt taalaa
I   promise-1SG thou-ALL  50     buck-PART

> I promise you she'll forget

Mä takaan, et se unohtaa
Mä takaa-n,       et   se   unohta-a
I   guarantee-1SG that s/he forget-3SG
’I guarantee/assure she’ll forget’

Cf. also with an adverb derived from the verb _taata_ ’guarantee’:  
_taatusti_ ’guaranteed’ (< _taatu-sti_ < passive past participle +  
adverb suffix):

Se taatusti unohtaa (or with an other word order: Se unohtaa taatusti)
Se   taatusti   unohta-a
s/he guaranteed forget-3SG

> I predict that she'll forget

Mä luulen, et se unohtaa
Mä luule-n,   et   se    unohta-a
I  think-1SG  that s/he  forget-3SG
’I think she’ll forget’

> I will put the money there

Mä panen rahat siihen
Mä pane-n    raha-t    sii-hen
I    put-1SG money-PL  it-ILL

Here I have interpreted the ambiguous phrase ”I will put the money  
there” close to an investment or betting context. This interpretation  
would be stronger with a possessive suffix in ’money’: raha-ni ’my  
money’.

Best wishes,
Hannu
-- 
Hannu Tommola, Professor of Russian Language (Translation Theory and Practice)
School of Modern Languages and Translation Studies
FIN-33014 University of Tampere, Finland
Phone: +358-(0)3-3551 6102
www.uta.fi/~trhato