query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

E. Bashir ebashir at YAHOO.COM
Thu Jan 31 19:55:06 UTC 2013


And, "it went beautifully", "it's going beautifully, nicely, rather badly, better than expected, ... "

Elena Bashir





>________________________________
> From: Ian Maddieson <ianm at BERKELEY.EDU>
>To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG 
>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:09 PM
>Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
> 
>
>... but, on the other hand, "go well", "go swimmingly", and even "go viral" 
>
>
>I'm not sure the negativity inheres in "go"
>
>
>Ian
>
>
>On 31 Jan 2013, at 09:10, Paul Hopper wrote:
>
>An adjective complement of English 'go'  has a negative force, e.g. go
>>bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see
>>http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful,
>>*prosperous, etc.
>>
>>- French pas?
>>
>>Paul Hopper
>>
>>
>>
>>Dear David,
>>>
>>
>>>
>>In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity
>>>
>>appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form
>>>
>>of the verb go -idd
>>>
>>
>>>
>>(Penchoen, 1973: 63)
>>>
>>a.ismuryaz-aḏur-iddḥusa
>>>
>>thisman-thisNEG-goHusa
>>>
>>’This man’s name is not Husa’
>>>
>>
>>>
>>b.ur-iddlləb ɛaya
>>>
>>NEG-goplaythis
>>>
>>‘This is no game’
>>>
>>
>>>
>>I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
>>>
>>Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is
>>>
>>relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been
>>>
>>studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping
>>>
>>suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb
>>>
>>share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the
>>>
>>affirmative variants of the verbs but still.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>Best wishes,
>>>
>>
>>>
>>Ljuba
>>>
>>
>>>
>>References
>>>
>>Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. Ms.,
>>>
>>BLS 25.
>>>
>>Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
>>>
>>Undena Publications.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu>
>>>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>In Pirahã, David, the relevant construction is:
>>>>
>>hi-ab-áo-b-á
>>>>
>>it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in
>>>>
>>many contexts to 'allgone.'
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>-- Dan
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>Hello David,
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>In Breton, yes.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Aed   eo      toud
>>>>>
>>Gone  is3sg   all
>>>>>
>>"it's all gone"
>>>>>
>>With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the verb
>>>>>
>>"partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Best,
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Steve
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Steve Hewitt
>>>>>
>>30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>>>>>
>>75012 PARIS
>>>>>
>>France
>>>>>
>>s.hewitt at unesco.org
>>>>>
>>+33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>>>>>
>>+33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile
>>>>>
>>+33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>
>>From: Discussion List for ALT
>>>>>
>>[mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Gil
>>>>>
>>Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>>>>>
>>To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>>>>>
>>Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Dear all,
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to express
>>>>>
>>a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an entity
>>>>>
>>previously present.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,
>>>>>
>>cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.
>>>>>
>>'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to
>>>>>
>>express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>The reason behind this query is as follows.  In Roon (an Austronesian
>>>>>
>>language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which
>>>>>
>>includes 'be in' and 'disappear'.  (The logic behind this would seem to
>>>>>
>>be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>>>>>
>>longer here.)   In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>>>>>
>>also used to form negative imperatives.  I am currently trying to
>>>>>
>>figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,
>>>>>
>>polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are
>>>>>
>>attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of
>>>>>
>>analysis.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Looking forward to any responses,
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>David
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>--
>>>>>
>>David Gil
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Department of Linguistics
>>>>>
>>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6,
>>>>>
>>D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>>>>>
>>Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>>>>>
>>Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Paul J. Hopper,
>>Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,
>>Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,
>>Carnegie Mellon University,
>>Pittsburgh, PA 15213,
>>Tel. 412-683-1109,
>>Fax 412-268-7989.
>>
>>Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,
>>Department of Linguistics,
>>University of Pittsburgh.
>>
>>Senior External Fellow,
>>School of Linguistics and Literature,
>>Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),
>>Freiburg i.Br., Germany
>>
>
>Ian Maddieson
>
>
>Department of Linguistics
>University of New Mexico
>MSC03-2130
>Albuquerque NM 87131-0001
>
>
>
>
>
>
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