<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Right Dan. The phenomena you mention (subject form
after conjunction, objective forms as subject) also occur in Dutch (dialects),
and also in West-Flemish. These are dealt with in Katie Wales' book, and she
gives some references. They most probably are in some way connected
with the phenomenon of subject form directly after the
preposition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Willy</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:slobin@socrates.Berkeley.EDU"
title=slobin@socrates.Berkeley.EDU>Dan I. Slobin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:willy.vandeweghe@PANDORA.BE"
title=willy.vandeweghe@PANDORA.BE>Willy Vandeweghe</A> ; <A
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"
title=LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 25, 2003 2:14
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: case in personal
pronouns</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=3>This has been widespread in American English,
probably in the last half century, but generally only for conjoined pronouns
with "I" as the second in the conjunction--e.g., <I>she gave it to him and
I</I>; <I>if they ever go with you and I again</I>, etc. This has been
much discussed in the literature. But I don't recall ever having heard
the "subject" form directly after a pronoun (e.g., *<I>she gave it to I, *they
promised to go out with I</I>) Conversely, also much discussed in the
literature, is the opposite system in conjoined subject pronouns--e.g., <I>me
and him always argue</I>. There have been a number of interesting,
sometimes insightful discussions of these phenomena, but I can't immediately
cite the literature.<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR>Dan Slobin<BR><BR>At 10:59 PM
3/25/03 +0100, Willy Vandeweghe wrote:<BR></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite type="cite"><FONT face=arial size=2>Dear
all</FONT><FONT size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>As
Jeroen Wiedenhof is raising the issue of personal pronouns, I would like to
add a query conderning personal pronouns of my own. At the moment Magda
Devos and I are studying a phenomenon of pronoun substitution in West
Flemish (a Dutch dialect). As a result of a recent evolution (in the last
decades), some varieties of this dialect (and increasingly more of them)
tend to substitute the objective form following a preposition by a
subject form. This results in sentences like:</FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>Hij heeft iets tegen
<B>ikke</B></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2><I>He
holds sth against <B>I</I></B></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT
face=arial size=2>(normally: Hij heeft iets <B>mij </B>- against
<B>me</B>)</FONT><FONT size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>Ik klappe nie meer tegen <B>gij</B></FONT><FONT
size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2><I>I don't talk to <B>you
</B>anymore</I></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>(normally: Ik klappe nie meer tegen <B>u</B> - in English this
opposition is neutralized in one 'you'-form)</FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>Ze zijn kwaad op
<B>wijder</B></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2><I>They
are mad at <B>we</I></B></FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>(normally: Ze zijn kwaad op <B>ons </B>- at <B>us</B>)</FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>1 Are there among you
who know of other languages or dialects exhibiting this kind of behaviour
(there are some dialects in S-W England, according to Katie Wales 1996.
<I>Personal pronouns in present-day English</I>. Cambridge:
CUPress.)</FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>2 Among the
factors that seem to be involved, there is stress (case contrast is replaced
by stress contrast), but this most probably is not the whole story. Does
anyone know of other accounts for this phenomenon in relevant
literature?</FONT><FONT size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>Thanks</FONT><FONT size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>Willy Vandeweghe</FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>Department of Translators & Interpreters</FONT><FONT
size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>Hogeschool Gent</FONT><FONT
size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>Groot-Brittanniėlaan
45</FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial size=2>9000 Gent
(Belgium)</FONT><FONT size=3><BR> <BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2>tel. ++ 32 9 224 97 31</FONT><FONT size=3><BR></FONT><FONT face=arial
size=2><A
href="mailto:willy.vandeweghe@hogent.be">willy.vandeweghe@hogent.be</A></FONT><FONT
size=3><BR> <BR> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=Tahoma
size=1><BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>Dan
I. Slobin<BR><I>Richard and Rhoda Goldman Professor<BR>in Undergraduate and
Interdisciplinary Studies<BR><BR></I>Department of Psychology<BR>3210 Tolman
#1650<BR>University of California<BR>Berkeley, CA 94720-1650,
USA<BR><BR>1-510-642-7090 [office] / -5292 [Dept.]<BR>1-510-848-1769
[home]<BR>slobin@socrates.berkeley.edu<BR>fax: 1-510-642-5293<BR>web page: <A
href="http://ihd.berkeley.edu/" eudora="autourl">http://ihd.berkeley.edu</A>
[Click on
"Research"]<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>></FONT>
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>