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<P>The use of first person plural form for singular reference is a common usage in Hindi spoken in the villages of U.P. [Northern India], in King's or upper class Hindi, and not only this, is considered more polite than the use of singular 'I'. My own language has 'we' and 'us' instead of 'I' and 'me' for first person singular. However, I have now learnt impolite/city versions of using 'I'. </P>
<P>Anvita<BR><BR></P></DIV>
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<DIV>Dr. Anvita Abbi </DIV>
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<DIV>Professor of Linguistics</DIV>
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<DIV>Center of Linguistics and English</DIV>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: Bernard Comrie <COMRIE@EVA.MPG.DE>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: Bernard Comrie <COMRIE@EVA.MPG.DE>
<DIV></DIV>>To: LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: case and number in pronouns
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:09:21 +0100
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>To: Lingtyp
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bernard Comrie
<DIV></DIV>>Date: 2003 Mar
<DIV></DIV>>Subj: Case and number in pronouns
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Just a few observations triggered by Jeroen Wiedenhof's and Willy
<DIV></DIV>>Vandeweghe's questions.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>NUMBER
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>I don't know if this is a factor in the Taiwanese Min usages, but in
<DIV></DIV>>different languages there are different preferences for usage of
<DIV></DIV>>singular or plural possessive pronouns where both could be justified
<DIV></DIV>>a priori. Thus, in English a single speaker tends to say "my
<DIV></DIV>>country", "my home town", "my village", whereas in one of the
<DIV></DIV>>Northeast Caucasian languages I'm currently working on, Tsez,
<DIV></DIV>>literal
<DIV></DIV>>translations of these are actually judged unacceptable: you have to
<DIV></DIV>>say "our village", etc., since (the outsider is told) the village
<DIV></DIV>>belongs to the community, not to any individual. With names of
<DIV></DIV>>family
<DIV></DIV>>members that are not solely "individually possessed", non-standard
<DIV></DIV>>varieties of English from northern England and Scotland have a
<DIV></DIV>>strong
<DIV></DIV>>tendency to use the possessive pronoun "our" (in Scotland and at
<DIV></DIV>>least as far south as Tyneside often in the form "wor"), as in "Wor
<DIV></DIV>>Wullie" 'our Willie'. One way of checking whether this is a factor
<DIV></DIV>>in
<DIV></DIV>>Taiwanese Min would be to see if it is possible when the
<DIV></DIV>>interpretation can only be singular, as in (assuming monogamy) 'my
<DIV></DIV>>spouse'.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>CASE
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>In Tyneside English, use of nominative "we" for accusative "us" is
<DIV></DIV>>frequent, as in "with we" 'with us'. Although I grew up on the edge
<DIV></DIV>>of Tyneside (in and around Sunderland), and frequently interact with
<DIV></DIV>>Tynesiders, my own native dialect is different, the Tyneside usage
<DIV></DIV>>still strikes me as bizarre, and I have virtually no reliable
<DIV></DIV>>intuitions about it, so any Tynesiders on the list are encouraged to
<DIV></DIV>>correct any misstatements I may make. I associate the usage
<DIV></DIV>>especially with the expression "with we", but recent observation of
<DIV></DIV>>a
<DIV></DIV>>Tyneside nephew (wor John, to be precise) suggests that it applies
<DIV></DIV>>to
<DIV></DIV>>all positions where "us" would be expected. Since Tyneside, in
<DIV></DIV>>common
<DIV></DIV>>with many English dialects (including my own native one) uses the
<DIV></DIV>>first person plural object pronoun in unstressed position also for
<DIV></DIV>>singular reference, "with we" (like my native "with us") can also
<DIV></DIV>>correspond to standard English "with me" -- note that "we" in
<DIV></DIV>>subject
<DIV></DIV>>position cannot have this singular interpretation. This case usage
<DIV></DIV>>doesn't extent to other pronouns.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>On the more general point, Joseph Wright, The English Dialect
<DIV></DIV>>Grammar, Oxford, 1905 (I am using the 1968 lithographic reprint),
<DIV></DIV>>Clarendon Press (= Oxford University Press), p.271 (in section 402)
<DIV></DIV>>says of English personal pronouns in dialect usage:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>"The objective forms are often used for the nominative when the
<DIV></DIV>>pronouns are unemphatic, especially in the south-midland, eastern,
<DIV></DIV>>southern, and south-western counties.
<DIV></DIV>>"Conversely, in all the dialects of the south-midland, eastern,
<DIV></DIV>>southern, and south-western counties the nom. of the personal
<DIV></DIV>>pronoun
<DIV></DIV>>is used as the emphatic form of the objective case."
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Incidentally, the Tyneside phenomenon is clearly distinct, in
<DIV></DIV>>addition to falling outside the geographical area specified by
<DIV></DIV>>Wright. The pronoun in "with we" is at least usually unstressed.
<DIV></DIV>>(I'm
<DIV></DIV>>not even sure if it can be stressed in its plural interpretation;
<DIV></DIV>>the
<DIV></DIV>>singular use of "us/we" is anyway restricted to unstressed usage.)
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Following up on Dan Everett's comment on poetic license, one might
<DIV></DIV>>note the extreme to which Tom Lehrer goes in his parody of Gilbert
<DIV></DIV>>and Sullivan, from the song "Clementine":
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>"But I love she and she loves me.
<DIV></DIV>>Enraptured are the both of we.
<DIV></DIV>>Yes I love she and she loves I
<DIV></DIV>>And will through all eternity!"
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>--
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Prof. Dr. Bernard Comrie Director, Department of Linguistics
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology
<DIV></DIV>>Inselstrasse 22 tel +49 341 99 52 301
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<DIV></DIV>>E-mail: comrie@eva.mpg.de
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