<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>case and number in pronouns</title></head><body>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="+2"
color="#000000">To:<x-tab> </x-tab>Lingtyp<br>
From:<x-tab> </x-tab>Bernard Comrie<br>
Date:<x-tab> </x-tab>2003 Mar<br>
Subj:<x-tab> </x-tab>Case and number in pronouns<br>
<br>
Just a few observations triggered by Jeroen Wiedenhof's and Willy
Vandeweghe's questions.<br>
<br>
NUMBER<br>
<br>
I don't know if this is a factor in the Taiwanese Min usages, but in
different languages there are different preferences for usage of
singular or plural possessive pronouns where both could be justified a
priori. Thus, in English a single speaker tends to say "my
country", "my home town", "my village",
whereas in one of the Northeast Caucasian languages I'm currently
working on, Tsez, literal translations of these are actually judged
unacceptable: you have to say "our village", etc., since
(the outsider is told) the village belongs to the community, not to
any individual. With names of family members that are not solely
"individually possessed", non-standard varieties of English
from northern England and Scotland have a strong tendency to use the
possessive pronoun "our" (in Scotland and at least as far
south as Tyneside often in the form "wor"), as in "Wor
Wullie" 'our Willie'. One way of checking whether this is a
factor in Taiwanese Min would be to see if it is possible when the
interpretation can only be singular, as in (assuming monogamy) 'my
spouse'.<br>
<br>
CASE<br>
<br>
In Tyneside English, use of nominative "we" for accusative
"us" is frequent, as in "with we" 'with us'.
Although I grew up on the edge of Tyneside (in and around Sunderland),
and frequently interact with Tynesiders, my own native dialect is
different, the Tyneside usage still strikes me as bizarre, and I have
virtually no reliable intuitions about it, so any Tynesiders on the
list are encouraged to correct any misstatements I may make. I
associate the usage especially with the expression "with
we", but recent observation of a Tyneside nephew (wor John, to be
precise) suggests that it applies to all positions where "us"
would be expected. Since Tyneside, in common with many English
dialects (including my own native one) uses the first person plural
object pronoun in unstressed position also for singular reference,
"with we" (like my native "with us") can also
correspond to standard English "with me" -- note that
"we" in subject position cannot have this singular
interpretation. This case usage doesn't extent to other pronouns.<br>
<br>
On the more general point, Joseph Wright, The English Dialect Grammar,
Oxford, 1905 (I am using the 1968 lithographic reprint), Clarendon
Press (= Oxford University Press), p.271 (in section 402) says of
English personal pronouns in dialect usage:<br>
<br>
"The objective forms are often used for the nominative when the
pronouns are unemphatic, especially in the south-midland, eastern,
southern, and south-western counties.<br>
"Conversely, in all the dialects of the south-midland, eastern,
southern, and south-western counties the nom. of the personal pronoun
is used as the emphatic form of the objective case."<br>
<br>
Incidentally, the Tyneside phenomenon is clearly distinct, in addition
to falling outside the geographical area specified by Wright. The
pronoun in "with we" is at least usually unstressed. (I'm
not even sure if it can be stressed in its plural interpretation; the
singular use of "us/we" is anyway restricted to unstressed
usage.)<br>
<br>
Following up on Dan Everett's comment on poetic license, one might
note the extreme to which Tom Lehrer goes in his parody of Gilbert and
Sullivan, from the song "Clementine":<br>
<br>
"But I love she and she loves me.<br>
Enraptured are the both of we.<br>
Yes I love she and she loves I<br>
And will through all eternity!"</font><br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="+2" color="#000000"></font></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>--
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
Prof. Dr. Bernard Comrie Director, Department
of Linguistics<br>
<br>
Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology<br>
Inselstrasse
22 <span
></span
> <span
></span> tel +49 341 99 52 301<br>
D-04103
Leipzig <span
></span> tel secretary +49
341 99 52 315<br>
Germany <span
></span
> <span
></span
> <span
></span> fax +49 341 99 52 119<br>
<br>
E-mail: <span
></span
> <span
></span
> <span
></span>
comrie@eva.mpg.de<br>
Home
page: <span
></span
>
http://www.eva.mpg.de/~comrie2/</div>
<div><br>
A copy of all incoming e-mail is fowarded to my
secretary. If<br>
you do not wish your message to be read other than by me, please<br>
put "private" in the subject box.</div>
</body>
</html>