<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Summary: number in personal pronouns</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#fffff0>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dear all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'd like to add a few examples in this discussion of
what we may call "roundabout" (or mediate) kin terms of address; that is,
address phrases that are not based on the actual relationship between
SPEAKER and ADDRESSEE (e.g. I call you 'Mum' if you are my
mother), but based on the relationship between ANOTHER PERSON
and ADDRESSEE (e.g. I call my wife 'Mum' by implicit reference to
the viewpoint of our children)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Calling my wife 'Mum' is something I regularly do
too in <STRONG>French</STRONG>, with my child[ren?]'s mother, but this is
normally restricted to those situations when our son is present, and/or my
address to my wife has something of an empathy with his point of view (e.g.
??‘<EM>Hey Mum, did you buy the newspaper?</EM>’ sounds odd; but ‘Hey Mum, won't
you make a chocolate cake?’ is fine).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>In <STRONG>Japanese</STRONG>, this usage seems to be much more
widespread, as married couples (with children) virtually use no other way to
address each other than /<EM>Okaasan</EM>/ 'Mum' and /<EM>Otousan</EM>/ 'Dad';
this is apparently less bound to constraints of presence/empathy/saliency of the
children (as compared with French), and is in fact just the norm. Calling each
other using first names becomes less common as soon as a child is
born.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>This reminds me of a couple of facts noted in Vanuatu
(Pacific, Austronesian languages), a country with many kin taboos related to
name-calling. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>1) In the language of <STRONG>East Ambae</STRONG>,
there seems to be no reference term for "my husband" other than a
periphrasis /<EM>tama-n netu-gu</EM>/ [father-POSS child-1s] ‘father of my
children’; notice that the whole sequence /<EM>tamannetu</EM>/ can
eventually be said to behave like a single root, because the possessor of the
children (<EM>netu-gu</EM> = my kids) is also the possessor of the
husband:<EM> <BR>tamannetu-gu = </EM>my kids'-father = my husband.<BR>(The
pattern is different for "my wife"). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Also, in Ambae, if I am a woman and my brother is married, I
cannot call his name any more, and must use a periphrasis<BR>“X's husband” (with
X = name of my sister-in-law), or<BR>“Y's father” (with Y = name of my
firstborn nephew).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2>2) The language of <STRONG>Mwotlap</STRONG> (Banks Is., about
200 km north of Ambae) behaves differently. In this language, there is no
problem for a woman to call her brother's name; but it is conversely strictly
forbidden, for a male or female, to call one's in-laws by their name (actually,
it is even forbidden to pronounce any word that may <EM>sound like</EM> the name
of one of my in-laws). Instead, several strategies are used, that resort to
synonyms, periphrases, and so on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Usually, if I want to call, say, my daughter-in-law,
I just use the kin term /<EM>tawayig</EM>/ 'daughter-in-law'. But one day, as
the women's house was a bit crowdy, passing by I heard an
old woman trying to call one of her many daughters-in-law's attention,
in vain. Her calls became more insisting, but as she knew she couldn't call the
young woman by her name (which would have made things much easier, because the
place was just full of virtual /<EM>tawayig</EM>/!), she finally resorted
to a roundabout strategy, that is, use a periphrasis with the name of her
own son = the young woman's husband. So she went /<EM>Tawayig mi
Rowson!</EM>/ literally ‘Hey, Daughter-in-Law with Rowson!’. The
strategy was successful, as Rowson's wife immediately emerged from the
crowd and hurried to her respected mother-in-law. </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Alex.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>
<HR>
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1>Alexandre François<BR> CNRS-LACITO<BR> 7, rue Guy
Môquet<BR> 94801 Villejuif<BR>
FRANCE<BR> tel.prof. (0)1.49.58.37.48.<BR> tel.priv.
(0)1.46.30.34.02.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/personnel/francois.htm"><FONT
size=1>http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/personnel/francois.htm</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Message d'origine ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>De
:</B> <A title=dacotah@MWT.NET href="mailto:dacotah@MWT.NET">Colin P
Masica</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>À :</B> <A
title=LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Envoyé :</B> mercredi 23 avril 2003
21:50</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Objet :</B> Re: Summary: number in personal
pronouns</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Steven,<BR><BR>You're right, of course. I originally wrote
"working-class and rural" but that seemed a bit patronizing and I decided to
simplify it... (Is your family neither?) What is interesting is, I hear
people addressing each other this way when no children are around (who are now
adults and out of the house in any case). I wonder if it correlates in any way
with "large" families? With level of education?<BR><BR>While I'm at it, it
should also be noted that in Hindi and other Indian languages, a woman who has
had a son is thenceforth referred to and addressed (and honored?) as "X's
mother". A recognition, no doubt, that she has fulfilled her most
important duty in life. (I'm not sure if a daughter merits the same
recognition. Let me do some checking...)<BR><BR>Meanwhile, I'm sure everyone
knows about the strict taboo (in Northern Hindu India, at any rate) on a
married woman's speaking her husband's name. (He might drop dead or something
if she did -- would certainly be gravely dishonored. Why?) There are various
ways of getting around this, perhaps most commonly, just "Him" (honorific
plural, of course). Also, "X's father" -- unless I am getting that mixed
up with colloquial American!<BR><BR>What about Taiwan Chinese, Steven? (Both
topics...)<BR><BR>Colin <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>