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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Dear Wolfgang and Bernard,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>The distribution of case markers is the same as that of postpositions in demonstrative constructions:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>ab-ban a ház-ban</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>that-INES the house-INES</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>'in that house'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would not speak of agreement here. Hungarian used to mark all discontinuous elements of a noun phrase by the same case suffix. Compare:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Piros-at kettö-t vett Mari cipö-t.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>red-ACC two-ACC bought Mary shoe-ACC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>'Mary bought two red shoes.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mari kettö piros cipö-t vett.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mary two red shoe-ACC bought </FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>'Mary bought two red shoes.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>It can be argued that the demonstrative is outside the NP, it precedes the article. Historically the demonstrative constructions can be analysed as non-verbal predicative constructions: that (is) the man. This explains why the demonstrative also takes the plural as in predications:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>az-ok a lány-ok</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>that-PL the girl-PL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>'those girls'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>Az-ok lány-ok.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>that-PL girl-PL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>'Those are girls.'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't know whether this is of much help. I missed the earlier messages on this subject. - Best, Casper de Groot</FONT></DIV>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Van:</B> Discussion List for ALT namens Bernhard Waelchli<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> vr 14-7-2006 14:29<BR><B>Aan:</B> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: Doubled preposition in NPs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>Dear Wolfgang <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR> As soon as the features I have mentioned disappear canonically, we would arrive at a 'doubled preposition construction'. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you interested in doubled postposition constructions as well?<BR><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hungarian is a case in point. Here are two examples from an elementary textbook. </SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">az előtt a ház előtt<SPAN> </SPAN><BR>that in.front ART house in.front<SPAN> </SPAN><BR>‘in front of that house’<SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">e mögött az oszlop mögött<BR>this behind ART column behind<BR>‘behind this column’</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There is agreement only with demonstratives, not with attributive adjectives, as with cases, and some sources say that the agreement of demonstratives with postpositions is optional. I am sure many other members of this list know much more about Hungarian than I. But with demonstratives, I can imagine, it is rather difficult to get a clearly non-referential context.</SPAN></P>Kind regards,<BR>Bernhard<BR><BR><BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
Bernhard Waelchli
FB Sprachwissenschaft
Universität Konstanz
Fach D 185
78457 Konstanz
+49 7531 88 3741
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:Bernhard.Waelchli@uni-konstanz.de">Bernhard.Waelchli@uni-konstanz.de</A>
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