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Dear Pål,<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Persian and many other Iranian languages use the word <i>hæva</i> (Arabic LW) "weather, air" for some meteorological phenomena:</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(These examples are cited in colloquial Persian)</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(1)</div><div>hæva særd=e/hæva særd nist</div><div>weather cold=is/weather cold isn't (etc. -- <i>=e</i> is enclitic, but <i>nist </i>is not)</div><div>"it's cold (out)"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(2)</div><div>hæva baruni=e</div><div>weather rainy=is</div><div>"it's rainy" (but see * below)</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(3)</div><div>hæva æbri=e</div><div>weather cloudy=is</div><div>"it's cloudy (out)"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(4a)</div><div>hæva tarik=e</div><div>weather dark=is</div><div>"it's dark (out)"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(4b)</div><div>hæva dare tarik mishe (sh = s-hacek)</div><div>weather PROG:3S dark become:PRES:3S</div><div>"it is getting dark"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>* but the above are different from what would be verbal forms in some languages (English, Slavic, etc.) where in Iranian languages the corresponding noun is used where possible in place of <i>hæva</i>: </div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>(5a)</div><div>barun miad</div><div>rain comes</div><div>"it is raining, it (usually) rains"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div>(5b)</div><div>barun miad</div><div>rain comes</div><div>"it is raining, it (usually) rains"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div><div>(6)</div><div>bærf miad</div><div>rain comes</div><div>"it is snowing, it (usually) snows"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div>(7)</div><div>bad miad</div><div>wind comes</div><div>"it is windy, it's blowing"</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>And hæva would not be used for "it is day/night" "it became morning/night" (these would be like the forms 5 -7 "morning/night became", etc.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Don Stilo</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div>On Feb 14, 2008, at 4:25 AM, <a href="mailto:p.k.eriksen@ILN.UIO.NO">p.k.eriksen@ILN.UIO.NO</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Dear colleagues,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I am currently doing research on expletive subjects, and in connection</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to that I am very interested in languages where meteorological predicates</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">("to rain", "to blow", "to be cold/warm", etc.) require, or at least often</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">occur with a subject meaning "world", "place", "surroundings", "sky", etc,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">or which in other ways somehow refers to the locational/geographical</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">background of the weather phenomena (or even to a temporal background,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">like "day") .</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Givón (in "Syntax Vol. I", 2001, p. 119) mentions that "the world" is</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">used as the dummy subject for meteorological predicates in some</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">languages across the globe, and gives an example from Palestinian</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Arabic (where the subject is "dunya" ("world")).</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Apart from this observation, I have found a number of examples in</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">different grammars:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- Nikolaeva & Tolskaya ("A Grammar of Udihe", 2001) shows that in the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Tungusic language Udihe a noun meaning "place outside" or "world" may be</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">used as the dummy subject for a number of meteorological predicates</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(though not by all).</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- Watters ("A Grammar of Kham", 2002) shows that in the Himalayish</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">language Kham a noun meaning "sky" is the meteorological dummy</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">subject.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- Keenan ("Remarkable Subjects in Malagasy" in Li (ed.) "Subject and</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Topic", 1976) mentions that in Malagasy meteorological predicates</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">normally take a word meaning "day" as their subject.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>- Næss (p.c.) has told me that in Äiwoo (possibly Austronesian,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Eastern Solomon Islands) a word most often translated as "surroundings" is</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">found as a subject for meteorological predicates, and that the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">neighbouring Polynesian language Vaeakau-Taumako similarly employs a word</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">meaning "land".</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Still, it is hard to find examples of this phenomenon, mostly because</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">many grammars don't even address the issue of expletive subjects and/or</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the structure of meteorological sentences. Consequenty I would be very</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">happy for any other example you can give me, of languages with this type</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of phenomenon.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Many thanks in advance,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Pål Eriksen</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>