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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>I agree with Hartmut. Arguably, the
idea of “simple juxtaposition” reflects a written-language bias, since
any combination of linguistic elements into a phrase or a word comes with an
intonation contour and a stress pattern (at least in languages where stress is
relevant). In the case of a syntactic combination as <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>black bird </span></i>it may of course be said that we are only dealing
with a default phrasal prosodic pattern, but in compounds such as <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>blackbird</span></i> there may be
construction-specific properties. In Germanic languages in general, compounds
tend to have the main stress on the first component and secondary stress on the
second one; in Standard Swedish there is the additional complication that if a
compound consists of more than two components, the secondary stress is always
on the last component, irrespective of the internal structure of the compound:
thus <i><span style='font-style:italic'>stor </span></i>‘big’ and <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>sjuk-hus</span></i> ‘sick-house=hospital’
(with main stress on <i><span style='font-style:italic'>sjuk</span></i>) combine
to give <i><span style='font-style:italic'>stor-sjuk-hus</span></i> with
secondary stress on <i><span style='font-style:italic'>hus</span></i> and <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>sjuk</span></i> unstressed. In the varieties in
northern Sweden that have extensive adjective incorporation, the incorporated
adjectives sometimes have phonologically reduced forms, which incidentally is
analogous to what happens in Semitic status constructus constructions (where the
head noun is reduced). I do not think it is important here that these
properties are not universal, what is important is that a grammar cannot just
say “concatenate these words”; you have to add descriptive detail. I
discuss these problems in <a
href="http://www.benjamins.com/cgi-bin/t_bookview.cgi?bookid=SLCS%2071">my 2004
book</a>, especially chapters 3 and 11. I would claim that to the extent that
compound nouns display specific expressional properties, they are representatives
of “mature constructions” in the sense defined in that book, that
is, basically, they are patterns that presuppose a diachronic development.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'>- Östen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> Discussion List for ALT
[mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Hartmut Haberland<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> den 24 november 2008 13:54<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: "simple
juxtaposition"</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Really Martin, do you <i><span style='font-style:italic'>mean</span></i>
that intonation (prosody) is no overt marking? Has the "written language
bias in linguistics" taken over for good? Even <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Bloomfield</st1:place></st1:City> knew that <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>'black 'bird</span></i> vs. '<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>blackbird</span></i> contrast not just in meaning but
also in form - and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>not</span></i> because of
the difference in spelling. <br>
Hartmut<br>
<br>
<br>
Martin Haspelmath wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I disagree with David and Östen: <br>
<br>
David Gil wrote: <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Re the Västerbotten dialect: I would tend to agree
with Östen Dahl that, as compounds, they don't really belong in the same boat
as true syntactic juxtapositions. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Östen Dahl wrote: <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I also think that "simple juxtaposition" is
not a wholly adequate label for these constructions, which are rather to be
seen as a kind of incorporation involving among other things "compound"
prosody. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Whether "simple juxtaposition" is an
appropriate label for Västerbotten (Swedish) Pelle-äpple 'Pelle's apple' or not
depends on the definition of "simple juxtaposition" as a comparative
concept. Typologists are free to define their comparative concepts in whatever
way they want, and they cannot assume that "juxtaposition" exists as
a pre-established category (innate or otherwise given in advance, independently
of the linguist). <br>
<br>
Recall that this is how Andrew Spencer and Irina Nikolaeva define the concept
"simple/pure juxtaposition": <br>
<br>
"by means of pure juxtaposition, without any other morphosyntactic marking
(agreement, adpositions, case marking etc.)" <br>
<br>
This is not a very precise definition (it is unclear what exactly is meant by
"morphosyntactic marking", and especially by "etc.").
However, the interpretation that many readers would think of first is in terms
of "overt marking" (usually by segmental marking, but possibly by
stem change, as in the Welsh example). But there is no overt marking in
Swedish, so this does fit Andrew's and Irina's definition. Östen points to
"compound prosody", implying that "simple juxtaposition"
should not have "compound prosody". But such a move does not work in
typology, because "compound prosody" is not a universally applicable
notion. Comparative concepts need to be defined in terms of universally
applicable concepts. <br>
<br>
Östen also suggests the label "incorporation", but how this is
different from juxtaposition is unclear. Often it is thought of in terms of non-referentiality
of the incorporee, but in Västerbotten the incorporee can evidently be
referentil (Pelle-äpple). <br>
<br>
Martin <br>
<br>
P.S. I think the term "simple (or pure) juxtaposition" is somewhat
confusing, because it suggests that "complex juxtaposition" also
exists. In fact, however, juxtaposition is universally understood in the
Spencer & Nikolaeva sense: as expression of a relationship between A and B
by putting A next to B without any overt coding. Juxtaposition is thus
"simple"/"pure" by definition. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color="#333333" face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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