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<TITLE>RE: Composed number (also called "double plural")</TITLE>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">Dear Bernhard,</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">The best and most accessible summary of the Breton data is now in Paolo Acquaviva,<I> Lexical Plurals: A Morphosemantic Approach</I>, OUP, 2008, chapter 8 "The system of Breton plural nouns" pp. 234-65. Google books preview at:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN><A HREF="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VwY-4QzbtmIC&pg=PA234&lpg=PA234&dq=breton+plural&source=bl&ots=ufXuPA3cN7&sig=1iTcMqiMC8e9ZBNRxOLhA99Slvc&hl=en&ei=QRbUSpahNNDLjAeaqtyABA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=breton%20plural&f=false"><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VwY-4QzbtmIC&pg=PA234&lpg=PA234&dq=breton+plural&source=bl&ots=ufXuPA3cN7&sig=1iTcMqiMC8e9ZBNRxOLhA99Slvc&hl=en&ei=QRbUSpahNNDLjAeaqtyABA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=breton%20plural&f=false</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-gb"></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">The only thing I would add about Breton is that the seminal study by native-speaker linguist Per Trépos,</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">Le Pluriel breton</FONT></I><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">, Imprimeries réunies, Rennes, 1956 / Emgleo Breiz, Brest, 1957, suggests to non-initiates a rather more pervasive systematization of complex interaction between collective/singulative/(individuated plural), singular/plural, plurale tantum/plural of plurale tantum, etc. than is actually the case. The proportion of nouns having more than a straightforward singular/plural distinction is relatively low. While certain common derivational patterns, such as collective</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">gwer</FONT></I><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> "glass, glasses", singulative</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">gwerenn</FONT></I><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> "glass", individuated plural of singulative</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">gwerennoù</FONT></I><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> "several individual glasses", or</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">bragoù</FONT></I><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> "pair of trousers" (plurale tantum),</FONT><I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">bragoioù/brageier</FONT></I> <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">"pairs of trousers" may indeed be discerned, on the whole it seems best to restrict these to the lexicon, as they are not fully productive.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">Best,</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">Steve Hewitt</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman">s.hewitt@unesco.org</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> </FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Times New Roman"> </FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">From: Discussion List for ALT [</FONT></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG"><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">] On Behalf Of Bernhard Waelchli</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sent: 12 October 2009 17:47</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">To: LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Subject: Composed number (also called "double plural")</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Dear typologists,</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Does anybody know of more languages with double nominal plural (or</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">dual/trial/paucal) marking where both plural (or dual/trial/paucal) markers added to the same noun express different kinds of plurality/duality? This is called "composed numbers" in Corbett (2000: </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">36, "number built as it were on another"). I mean cases such as, e.g.:</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(a) X-PL 'Xs',</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">X-PL-PL 'different groups/sets of Xs, large quantities of X'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(b) X-PL 'a plurale tantum X',</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">X-PL-PL 'a plural of a plurale tantum X'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Paraphrasing the question for the specific (b)-kind:</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Does anybody know languages where pluralia/dualia tantum can be pluralized just by adding another plural/dual marker?</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I know of the following languages with composed numbers (or groups of</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">languages): Ful, Burushaski, Breton, Warekena, and Mongolian. It has also been reported for Khamtanga (Chamir, Agaw, Cushitic), and Arabic. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">According to Corbett (2000: 36) composed number is rare, but I am rather confident that somebody of you knows about some more examples of a similiar kind as those:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Ful (Adamawa) (Klingenheben 1963: 139)</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">nagge 'cow[SG] > cow'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">na'i 'cow[PL] > cows'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">na'i-ije 'cow[PL]-PL > groups/flocks of cows'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Burushaski (Lorimer 1935: 46)</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">ts</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">riš SG 'one part of a door frame'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">ts</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">r</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="MS UI Gothic">ʌ</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">ŋ PL 'one complete doorframe'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">ts</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">r</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="MS UI Gothic">ʌ</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">ŋ-</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="sk"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial CE">či</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Gulim">ŋ DOUBLE-PL 'door frames'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Breton (Ternes 1992: 415; Corbett 2000: 36) bugel 'child > child'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">bugal-e 'child-PL > children'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">bugal-e-où 'child-PL-PL > groups of children'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Warekena (Aikhenvald 1998: 300-4; Corbett 2000: 37) abida-pe 'pig-PL > pigs'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">abida-nawi 'pig-GREATER.PL > very many pigs'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">abida-pe-nawi 'pig-PL-GREATER.PL > very many pigs indeed, too many to count'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Khalkha Mongolian (Poppe 1970; Plank, 1985: Linguistics 23.45-82) lam</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> [SG] 'lama'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">lam</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-n</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">r PL 'lamas'</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">lam</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">-n</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Tahoma">ə</FONT><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">r-uud PL-PL 'highly esteemed lamas'</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(As far as I know, no triple plural with three different kinds of plural meanings has been reported. Or does somebody have any?)</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">(I am NOT interested in this query in the more common case of two or more distinct plural suffixes expressing just a single kind of plurality, such as in Dutch _kind-er-en_ 'children' [or etymologically English _child-r-en_] or the more spectacular case of Breton diminutives, Stump 1990, Corbett 2000: 152)</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Many thanks in advance!</FONT></SPAN>
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<P><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Bernhard Waelchli</FONT></SPAN>
<BR><SPAN LANG="en-gb"><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">University of Bern</FONT></SPAN>
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