Anna Filippova<div>Moscow State Linguistic University</div><div>Faculty for the German Language</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Siewierska, Anna <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:a.siewierska@lancaster.ac.uk">a.siewierska@lancaster.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Dear colleague,<br>
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We are doing a survey on betting constructions and would very much appreciate your help. Below is a short questionniare with a number of questions relating to various aspects of betting constuctions. If you could answer any of these with respect to your native langauge or any other language that you know we would be very grateful. We suspect that the constructions that we are after may not be present in all languages. However, we have good reason to believe that betting constructions are not restricted to just European languages.<br>
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We have already had some interesting responses from several colleagues who we approached individually for which we are very grateful. We will post these together with any repsonses that we get now once we have collated all the information.<br>
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If you have any other observations about the linguistic expression of bets not covered by the questionniare, please do share them with us.<br>
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Thank you very much for your help.<br>
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Dan Ponsford, Anna Siewierska, Willem Hollmann<br>
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Lancaster University<br>
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Questionniare<br>
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Please give the name of your language (including variety).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Russian (standard) </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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Here is a little scenario: I ask my mother to do something. She may remember; she may forget. I say to you:<br>
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"I bet you fifty dollars she forgets"<br>
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Please answer the following questions.<br>
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(1) How would you express the sequence in quotes most naturally in your language? Please gloss your example.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>a) Sporim na 50 dollarov/baksov, shto ona zabudet.</div><div> (we) bet (3 Pl present) "on" 50 dollars/bucks ("bucks" is far more likely) that she forgets (3 Sg future (or just futurity))</div>
<div><br></div><div>It seems to me, that, when you have these "50 dollars" in your sentence, it is more likely to be a neutral or exclamatory sentence (though an interrogative intonation is not impossible), but if there is no "50 dollars" there, just something like "I bet she forgets", it is almost always a question with the corresponding intonation pattern:</div>
<div><br></div><div>b) Sporim, (shto) ona zabudet?</div><div><br></div><div>But maybe it is not so relevant for you.</div><div><br></div><div>An even more colloquial (and juvenile) variant of it would be </div><div><br></div>
<div>c) Spornyom, (shto) ona zabudet?</div><div><br></div><div>- where "spornyom" is a form that I know ONLY from sentences like that. It is the same verb "sporit" in the 3 Pl present (as it seems), but there seem to be no other forms of it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>d) Dayu 50 dollarov, shto ona zabudet.</div><div> (I) give (1 Sg present) 50 dollars, that she forgets.</div><div><br></div><div>e) Again, when no exact sum of money is given, we can say</div>
<div><br></div><div>Derzhu pari, shto ona zabudet.</div><div>Or</div><div>Pari derzhu, shto ona zabudet.</div><div>(I) hold (1 Sg present) a bet that she forgets.</div><div><br></div><div>This expression is more literary, the word "pari" is a French loan of late 18th century (from "parier").</div>
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Betting is often done on sports. Here is a second little scenario:<br>
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Me and my brother are watching a football match between Manchester United and Barcelona. He says that Manchester United will win. But I think Barcelona will win. I say to him:<br>
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"I bet you fifty dollars Barcelona win"<br>
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(2) How would you express the sequence in quotes? Please gloss your example.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The same variants seem to work here - I'd say, a), b) and d) are good.</div><div><br></div><div>a) Sporim na 50 dollarov, shto Barcelona vyigraet (.!?)</div>
<div>b) Sporim, (shto) Barcelona vyigraet?</div><div>d) Dayu 50 dollarov, shto Barcelona vyigraet.</div><div><br></div><div>Instead of d) I would even say </div><div><br></div><div>Stavlyu 50 dollarov na Barcelonu - but it would be a less exact translation, as it is</div>
<div>(I) stake 50 dollars on Barcelona.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
(3) If your answer to (1) or (2) used a word specifically meaning 'bet' or 'to bet', does this word have any senses other than the betting sense?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The verb "sporit" means primarily "argue, have an argument, discuss".</div>
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(4) If your answer to (1) mentioned 'I' and 'you', is it also possible to express the same meaning without mentioning 'I', without mentioning 'you', or without mentioning either? If so, please give examples.<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>See point 1.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
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(5) Is there a conventional way of agreeing to a bet in your language? In English, bets are conventionally accepted with expressions such as "Done!" or "You're on!"<br></blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>We would probably just say "Sporim!" (echo-answer of "Sporim, shto...?"), or "Po rukam" (can't translate it adequately, sorry, it has to do with hands - maybe something like "on/by hands"), if we bet on money.</div>
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(6) Can a construction similar to the one in your answer to (1) be used to show how strongly one believes a proposition to be true? For example, in English it is possible to say the following with no gambling intention.<br>
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I bet you anything they won't come<br>
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I bet you they won't come<br>
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I bet they won't come<br>
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If this is possible in your language, could you provide a glossed example. If it is not possible, how would you express the same meaning?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, it is possible, in the same way as it is done in English.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Na shto ugodno sporyu - oni ne pridut. </div><div>on anything (I) bet you they won't come</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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(7) How would you express the following in your language? Please give glossed examples.<br>
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I'll give you fifty dollars<br></blockquote><div> </div><div>Ya dam tebe 50 dollarov</div><div>I give (future) you (Dat Sg) 50 dollars </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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I promise you fifty dollars<br></blockquote><div>Obeshayu tebe 50 dollarov</div><div>(I) promise (present) you (Dat Sg) 50 dollars </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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I promise you she'll forget<br></blockquote><div>(Ya) obeshayu (tebe), (shto) ona zabudet.</div><div>(I) promise (present) (you), (that) she forgets (3 Sg future)</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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I predict that she'll forget<br></blockquote><div>?.. Sounds a bit artificial to me, wouldn't say it like this in Russian at all. </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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I will put the money there<br></blockquote><div>Ya polozhu dengi tuda</div><div>I lay (1 Sg future) money there</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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There may be aspects of betting constructions that occurred to you but are not covered by these questions. If you'd like to comment further, please do so.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Can't think of anything else now... Maybe later!</div>
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Many thanks for your help.<br>
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