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Another option for contextless examples (in fact, the simplest
option) is to use <i>she</i> or <i>he</i> randomly, in an
unprincipled way.<br>
<br>
Thereby one would lose information, but one loses information anyway
in translation. I don't think that gender needs to have special
status. Whenever a word has a broader meaning in the object
language, one could give alternatives in the metalanguage (e.g.
Russian <i>ruka bolit</i> 'the hand/arm hurts', or German <i>auf
die Uhr schauen</i> 'look at the clock/watch'), but usually we
don't do this.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
On 08/03/2011 14:54, E. Bashir wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:192552.13528.qm@web45716.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The problem seems to exist only in grammatical examples involving humans which are presented without surrounding context. If the examples are taken from context, whether the pronoun refers to 'he' or 'she' will be clear, and should be maintained in the glosses, in my opinion. With contextless examples involving humans, one could either (i) have a general note in the introductory materials to the grammar saying that the language in question does not mark gender on pronouns, and that a default pronoun 'he', for example, is being used throughout, but should be understood as generic third-person singular. (ii) use the s/he and him/her strategy.
eb
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a>
Subject: Re: Free translations of genderless reference forms
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 7:07 AM
There are several solutions used by
writers and various journals,
including the one Mike refers to, but the Tom's particular
problem is how
to gloss example sentences without making a point of the
gender. 'She/he',
'him/her' seem to be unavoidable in this genre. Choosing
examples with
plural pronouns (they/them) obviates the problem, but isn't
always
possible. How do German linguists deal with this, when many
nouns are also
marked for gender?
Paul Hopper
On Tue, March 8, 2011 03:15, Mike Morgan wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Well, I have seen a few attempts at finding a solution
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">(meaning of course
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> there is no generally-agreed upon solution)...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">one being using "he" in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">all examples in even chapters and "she" in odd
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ones...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
mwm
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Thomas E. Payne <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tpayne@uoregon.edu"><tpayne@uoregon.edu></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello. Those of us who write in English often run
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">into the problem that
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> English forces one to make a gender
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">distinction in reference forms
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(e.g.,
pronouns) where the languages we work with make no
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">such distinction. I'm
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> wondering whether there is a "standard" way
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of dealing with this by
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">now. Does anyone know?
I'm talking about a huge number of references,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">e.g., the free
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">translations of example sentences in a reference
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">grammar. It can get
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">very tedious to have to constantly use forms like
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">'she/he', 'him/her'.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The free translations no
longer sound "free" at all.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Tom
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">===========================================================
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"I have become my own version of an optimist. If I
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">can't make it through
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">one door, I'll go through another door - or I'll make
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">a door. Something
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">terrific will come no matter how dark the present."
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">(R. Tagore)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@eva.mpg.de">haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>)
Max-Planck-Institut fuer evolutionaere Anthropologie, Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
Tel. (MPI) +49-341-3550 307, (priv.) +49-341-980 1616
</pre>
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