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I think, Elena's way of handling the problem is rather
straightforward. However, I would not only refer to (linguistic)
co-text, but also to non-linguistic context. By this I mean, that
examples stemming from informants also include the informant's
hypothesis about the gender of the referential entity referred to by
a (then) exophoric pronoun. Hence, the linguist should always try in
such cases to elicit the informant's 'gender assumption' together
with the phrase itself. In other words: The speaker's/informant's
knowledge system ~ practice concerning gender reference is part of
the documentation of an actual utterance. In' well aware of the fact
that this is not always easy to do. But just as an informant cannot
ignore a proposed gender when asked to translate a sentence from say
English or Russian to their native tongue, we cannot and must not
ignore the speaker's/informant's own tradition. Only in case
examples are construed by ourselves, the s/he-option makes sense. It
then simply indicates 'underspecification' (with respect to the
source language) or 'overspecification' with respect to the
metalanguage. <br>
<br>
As for interlinear glosses, things are more easy to handle. Here, we
can simply put the corresponding etiquettes, such as ANAPH, or DX or
so, in case the language at issue does not mark gender. <br>
<br>
Bes wishes,<br>
Wolfgang<br>
<br>
Am 08.03.2011 14:54, schrieb E. Bashir:
<blockquote cite="mid:192552.13528.qm@web45716.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The problem seems to exist only in grammatical examples involving humans which are presented without surrounding context. If the examples are taken from context, whether the pronoun refers to 'he' or 'she' will be clear, and should be maintained in the glosses, in my opinion. With contextless examples involving humans, one could either (i) have a general note in the introductory materials to the grammar saying that the language in question does not mark gender on pronouns, and that a default pronoun 'he', for example, is being used throughout, but should be understood as generic third-person singular. (ii) use the s/he and him/her strategy.
eb
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a>
Subject: Re: Free translations of genderless reference forms
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 7:07 AM
There are several solutions used by
writers and various journals,
including the one Mike refers to, but the Tom's particular
problem is how
to gloss example sentences without making a point of the
gender. 'She/he',
'him/her' seem to be unavoidable in this genre. Choosing
examples with
plural pronouns (they/them) obviates the problem, but isn't
always
possible. How do German linguists deal with this, when many
nouns are also
marked for gender?
Paul Hopper
On Tue, March 8, 2011 03:15, Mike Morgan wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Well, I have seen a few attempts at finding a solution
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">(meaning of course
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> there is no generally-agreed upon solution)...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">one being using "he" in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">all examples in even chapters and "she" in odd
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">ones...
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
mwm
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Thomas E. Payne <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tpayne@uoregon.edu"><tpayne@uoregon.edu></a>
wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hello. Those of us who write in English often run
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">into the problem that
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> English forces one to make a gender
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">distinction in reference forms
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(e.g.,
pronouns) where the languages we work with make no
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">such distinction. I'm
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> wondering whether there is a "standard" way
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">of dealing with this by
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">now. Does anyone know?
I'm talking about a huge number of references,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">e.g., the free
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">translations of example sentences in a reference
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">grammar. It can get
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">very tedious to have to constantly use forms like
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">'she/he', 'him/her'.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The free translations no
longer sound "free" at all.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Tom
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
mwm || U C > || mike || мика ||
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">माईक || マイク ||
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">மாஇக (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">===========================================================
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Senior Consultant
BA Programme in Applied Sign Linguistics
IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">===========================================================
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">"I have become my own version of an optimist. If I
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">can't make it through
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">one door, I'll go through another door - or I'll make
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">a door. Something
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">terrific will come no matter how dark the present."
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">(R. Tagore)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
Paul J. Hopper
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
and
Senior External Fellow
School of Linguistics and Literature
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS)
Albertstr. 19
D-79105 Freiburg i.Br.
Germany
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"
lang="EN-US">----------------------------------------------------------</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><b><span style="color: gray;"
lang="EN-US">Prof. Dr. Wolfgang
Schulze
</span></b><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"
lang="EN-US">----------------------------------------------------------
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Institut
für Allgemeine & Typologische
Sprachwissenschaft </span><span style="font-size:
12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span class="SpellE"><span
style="font-size: 9pt;">Dept</span></span><span
style="font-size: 9pt;">. II / F 13
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität
München
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Ludwigstraße
25
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"
lang="EN-US">D-80539 <span class="SpellE">München</span>
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"
lang="EN-US">Tel.: 0049-(0)89-2180-2486
(Secretary)
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times
New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"
lang="EN-US"> 0049-(0)89-2180-5343
(Office)
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR">Fax:<span
class="GramE"> 0049</span>-(0)89-2180-5345
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";" lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR">Email:
</span><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a
href="mailto:W.Schulze@lrz.uni-muenchen.de"><span style=""
lang="FR">W.Schulze@lrz.uni-muenchen.de</span></a></span><span
style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR"> /// </span><span
style="font-size: 9pt;"><a
href="mailto:Wolfgang.Schulze@lmu.de"><span style=""
lang="FR">Wolfgang.Schulze@lmu.de</span></a></span><span
style="font-size: 9pt;" lang="FR"> </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman","serif";" lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"
lang="EN-US">Web: <a
href="http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html"><span style="">http://www.ats.lmu.de/index.html</span></a>
</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
"Times New Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"
lang="EN-US">Personal homepage: <a
href="http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com"><span
style="">http://www.wolfgangschulze.in-devir.com</span></a></span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman","serif";" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">----------------------------------------------------------</span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New
Roman","serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 6pt; line-height:
115%; font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";
color: rgb(77, 77, 77);">Diese e-Mail kann vertrauliche
und/oder
rechtlich geschützte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht
der richtige
Adressat sind bzw. diese e-Mail irrtümlich erhalten haben,
informieren Sie
bitte umgehend den Absender und vernichten Sie diese e-Mail.
Das unerlaubte
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line-height: 115%;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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