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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I have no answer whether there
is a standard way to handle the free translation of the gender-neutral 3 person
pronouns. But in the Mauwake reference grammar I did like Elena Bashir
suggests. In narrative texts it is usually possible to find out the gender of a
referent, but I would claim that there are also genuine cases of text examples where
the context does not provide a clue for the gender, e.g. <i>If a person is hit
by a car, (s)he needs to be taken to the hospital</i>. In cases like this I
used <b>(s)he</b> - and I also explained this usage in the introduction where I
discussed the data & examples. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>My mother tongue, Finnish, does
not have a gender distinction in the 3 person pronouns, and sometimes it is hard
to decide whether to use <i>he</i>, <i>she</i> or <i>they</i> in English for
the Finnish gender-neutral 3s <i>hän</i>. There are lots of cases where the
gender distinction just isn’t there at all (and there is no ‘informant’s gender
assumption’), but for the translation the distinction has to be forced, when
the target language requires it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Liisa Berghäll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Discussion List for ALT
[mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Wolfgang Schulze<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:31 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Free translations of genderless reference forms<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think, Elena's way of handling the problem is rather
straightforward. However, I would not only refer to (linguistic) co-text, but
also to non-linguistic context. By this I mean, that examples stemming from
informants also include the informant's hypothesis about the gender of the
referential entity referred to by a (then) exophoric pronoun. Hence, the
linguist should always try in such cases to elicit the informant's 'gender
assumption' together with the phrase itself. In other words: The speaker's/informant's
knowledge system ~ practice concerning gender reference is part of the
documentation of an actual utterance. In' well aware of the fact that this is
not always easy to do. But just as an informant cannot ignore a proposed gender
when asked to translate a sentence from say English or Russian to their native
tongue, we cannot and must not ignore the speaker's/informant's own tradition.
Only in case examples are construed by ourselves, the s/he-option makes sense.
It then simply indicates 'underspecification' (with respect to the source
language) or 'overspecification' with respect to the metalanguage. <br>
<br>
As for interlinear glosses, things are more easy to handle. Here, we can simply
put the corresponding etiquettes, such as ANAPH, or DX or so, in case the
language at issue does not mark gender. <br>
<br>
Bes wishes,<br>
Wolfgang<br>
<br>
Am 08.03.2011 14:54, schrieb E. Bashir: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>The problem seems to exist only in grammatical examples involving humans which are presented without surrounding context. If the examples are taken from context, whether the pronoun refers to 'he' or 'she' will be clear, and should be maintained in the glosses, in my opinion. With contextless examples involving humans, one could either (i) have a general note in the introductory materials to the grammar saying that the language in question does not mark gender on pronouns, and that a default pronoun 'he', for example, is being used throughout, but should be understood as generic third-person singular. (ii) use the s/he and him/her strategy.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>eb<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Paul Hopper <a
href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>From: Paul Hopper <a
href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Subject: Re: Free translations of genderless reference forms<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To: <a
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 7:07 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>There are several solutions used by<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>writers and various journals,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>including the one Mike refers to, but the Tom's particular<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>problem is how<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>to gloss example sentences without making a point of the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>gender. 'She/he',<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>'him/her' seem to be unavoidable in this genre. Choosing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>examples with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>plural pronouns (they/them) obviates the problem, but isn't<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>always<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>possible. How do German linguists deal with this, when many<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>nouns are also<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>marked for gender?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Paul Hopper<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Tue, March 8, 2011 03:15, Mike Morgan wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Well, I have seen a few attempts at finding a solution<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>(meaning of course<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> there is no generally-agreed upon solution)...<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>one being using "he" in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>all examples in even chapters and "she" in odd<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>ones...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>mwm<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Thomas E. Payne <a
href="mailto:tpayne@uoregon.edu"><tpayne@uoregon.edu></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Hello. Those of us who write in English often run<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>into the problem that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> English forces one to make a gender<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>distinction in reference forms<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>(e.g.,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>pronouns) where the languages we work with make no<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>such distinction. I'm<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre> wondering whether there is a "standard" way<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>of dealing with this by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>now. Does anyone know?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>I'm talking about a huge number of references,<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>e.g., the free<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>translations of example sentences in a reference<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>grammar. It can get<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>very tedious to have to constantly use forms like<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre>'she/he', 'him/her'.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>The free translations no<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>longer sound "free" at all.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Thanks for any thoughts.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Tom<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>mwm || U C > || mike || мика ||<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>माईक || マイク ||<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>மாஇக (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>===========================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>Senior Consultant<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>BA Programme in Applied Sign Linguistics<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>===========================================================<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>"I have become my own version of an optimist. If I<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>can't make it through<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>one door, I'll go through another door - or I'll make<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>a door. Something<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>terrific will come no matter how dark the present."<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre>(R. Tagore)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Paul J. Hopper<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Department of English<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Carnegie Mellon University<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Pittsburgh, PA 15213<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Senior External Fellow<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>School of Linguistics and Literature<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Albertstr. 19<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>D-79105 Freiburg i.Br.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Germany<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
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