<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I tried exactly this first option you suggest, Martin, in one book, but the editor (Cambridge, I believe) would not let it in. <div><br></div><div>Dan</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 8, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Martin Haspelmath wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Another option for contextless examples (in fact, the simplest
option) is to use <i>she</i> or <i>he</i> randomly, in an
unprincipled way.<br>
<br>
Thereby one would lose information, but one loses information anyway
in translation. I don't think that gender needs to have special
status. Whenever a word has a broader meaning in the object
language, one could give alternatives in the metalanguage (e.g.
Russian <i>ruka bolit</i> 'the hand/arm hurts', or German <i>auf
die Uhr schauen</i> 'look at the clock/watch'), but usually we
don't do this.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
On 08/03/2011 14:54, E. Bashir wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:192552.13528.qm@web45716.mail.sp1.yahoo.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The problem seems to exist only in grammatical examples involving humans which are presented without surrounding context. If the examples are taken from context, whether the pronoun refers to 'he' or 'she' will be clear, and should be maintained in the glosses, in my opinion. With contextless examples involving humans, one could either (i) have a general note in the introductory materials to the grammar saying that the language in question does not mark gender on pronouns, and that a default pronoun 'he', for example, is being used throughout, but should be understood as generic third-person singular. (ii) use the s/he and him/her strategy.
eb
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a> wrote:
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From: Paul Hopper <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hopper@CMU.EDU"><hopper@CMU.EDU></a>
Subject: Re: Free translations of genderless reference forms
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 7:07 AM
There are several solutions used by
writers and various journals,
including the one Mike refers to, but the Tom's particular
problem is how
to gloss example sentences without making a point of the
gender. 'She/he',
'him/her' seem to be unavoidable in this genre. Choosing
examples with
plural pronouns (they/them) obviates the problem, but isn't
always
possible. How do German linguists deal with this, when many
nouns are also
marked for gender?
Paul Hopper
On Tue, March 8, 2011 03:15, Mike Morgan wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Well, I have seen a few attempts at finding a solution
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<pre wrap="">(meaning of course
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<pre wrap=""> there is no generally-agreed upon solution)...
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<pre wrap="">one being using "he" in
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<pre wrap="">all examples in even chapters and "she" in odd
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<pre wrap="">ones...
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<pre wrap="">
mwm
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Thomas E. Payne <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tpayne@uoregon.edu"><tpayne@uoregon.edu></a>
wrote:
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<pre wrap="">Hello. Those of us who write in English often run
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<pre wrap="">into the problem that
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<pre wrap=""> English forces one to make a gender
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<pre wrap="">distinction in reference forms
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<pre wrap="">(e.g.,
pronouns) where the languages we work with make no
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<pre wrap="">such distinction. I'm
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<pre wrap=""> wondering whether there is a "standard" way
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<pre wrap="">of dealing with this by
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<pre wrap="">now. Does anyone know?
I'm talking about a huge number of references,
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<pre wrap="">e.g., the free
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<pre wrap="">translations of example sentences in a reference
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<pre wrap="">grammar. It can get
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<pre wrap="">very tedious to have to constantly use forms like
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<pre wrap="">'she/he', 'him/her'.
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">The free translations no
longer sound "free" at all.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Tom
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<pre wrap="">===========================================================
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<pre wrap="">"I have become my own version of an optimist. If I
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<pre wrap="">can't make it through
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<pre wrap="">one door, I'll go through another door - or I'll make
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<pre wrap="">a door. Something
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<pre wrap="">terrific will come no matter how dark the present."
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<pre wrap="">(R. Tagore)
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@eva.mpg.de">haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>)
Max-Planck-Institut fuer evolutionaere Anthropologie, Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
Tel. (MPI) +49-341-3550 307, (priv.) +49-341-980 1616
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