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Le 02/06/11 15:45, Paolo Ramat a écrit :
<blockquote cite="mid:605C28D69FFA4B58A68547F83EA19563@PaoloPC"
type="cite">French "comment vas-tu ?" and "comment ça va?" ,
Germ. "wie geht's dir ?" are the most familiar cases of movement
verbs used in greetings (vs. Span. "còmo estàs?" [accents are not
correct in e-mail characters and the inverted interrogative sign
is also missing] It. "come stai?" , lit. 'how do you stay?')
<br>
<br>
----> Right, but it does not seem to be what David is looking
for, as this use is not limited any more to greetings.<br>
</blockquote>
In modern French for instance, the verb <i>aller</i> has by itself
the meaning of "be in such and such a state", which is not
restricted to greetings : one can ask "Comment allez-vous?" and get
the answer "Je ne vais pas très bien" or, according to the register,
"Ça va pas fort", which shows that it is not a mere formal greeting
(different from "Ça va?", which is normally answered by a mere
repetition with a falling intonation "Ça va.", and not by "Non, ça
va pas" (verified in field experiments)). Besides, one can tell
about a third person "Il ne va pas très bien", and it has no
connection with a greeting. <br>
This meaning has been partly borrowed in Europe by
non-Indo-European languages, <br>
so that even in Finnish, where the polite personalized greeting does
not use the verb <i>mennä</i> "to go" (but rather a verb "be able
to" (<i>voida</i>) –<i>Miten voit ? or "</i>have the strength to"
(<i>jaksaa</i>) -<i>Miten jaksat? "</i>How are you doing?), and the
familiar greeting resorts to a verb of perception (<i>Mitä kuuluu ?</i>
"What-is-being heard?", and its idiomatic answer <i>-Ei kuulu
mitään</i> 'Nothing is heard", which is positive, although it can
sound rather abrupt to non native ears, <br>
one can also ask in a neutral unpersonal way (3rd person without a
personal pronoun) <i>-Miten menee?</i> "How is (it) going?", which,
without a more precise context ("How is it actually going with her
divorce?", etc.), will simply mean "How are you?". <br>
The same is observed in Northern Sami, where younger speakers
re-acquiring the language sometimes use the movement verb for asking
about the addressee's health, but the only idiomatical greeting is
still using the acoustic perception verb.<br>
But, in none of these languages - not even in Sami, which, being
one of the last oral languages of Europe, is (over) reputed to be
"exotic" – I can think of such a question using not only the
movement verb, but also an interrogative spatial word and requiring
a spatial indicator from the answerer.<br>
[which does not exclude though that such an exchange as "Where
are you going?" and the answer "Just walking" can be encountered
among Finns or Sami, reluctant to questioning, but, as we say in
French, that is "another pair of sleeves"].<br>
<br>
David's inquiry seems therefore to aim at a very specific type
of greeting, and it will be interesting to hear (read) whether
equivalent phrases are found in other parts of the world than in
Southeast Asia.<br>
<br>
MMJFV<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:605C28D69FFA4B58A68547F83EA19563@PaoloPC"
type="cite">
<br>
Prof.Paolo Ramat
<br>
Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS )
<br>
Direttore del Centro "Lingue d'Europa: tipologia, storia e
sociolinguistica" (LETiSS)
<br>
Viale Lungo Ticino Sforza 56
<br>
27100 Pavia
<br>
tel. ++390382375811
<br>
fax ++390382375899
<br>
-----Messaggio originale----- From: David Gil
<br>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 1:24 PM
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
<br>
Subject: query: Where are you going?
<br>
<br>
Dear all,
<br>
<br>
One of the most common greetings in many languages of mainland and
<br>
insular Southeast Asia is a phrase whose literal meaning is "Where
are
<br>
you going?", eg. Thai /pai nai?/, Indonesian /mau ke mana?/
Crucially,
<br>
it is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, any more than
the
<br>
English "How do you do?", and the most appropriate response will
<br>
typically be something vague and non-committal, such as "just
walking"
<br>
<br>
I am interested in mapping the geographical distribution of the
"Where
<br>
are you going?" greeting. I would thus be grateful for
information from
<br>
as many languages as possible, answering the simple question:
<br>
<br>
In language(s) that you are familiar with, is "Where are you
going?" (or
<br>
an alternative "Where are you coming from?") used as a common
greeting,
<br>
without necessarily being meant to be taken literally as an
expression
<br>
of interest in the direction of the addressee's movements?
<br>
<br>
I am equally interested in negative data, asserting that your
language
<br>
does not have such a usage, as I am in data of a positive nature.
<br>
<br>
In addition to confirming the presence of this greeting thoughout
<br>
mainland and insular Southeast Asia, I am particularly interested
in
<br>
ascertaining the geographical boundaries of the greeting, to the
west in
<br>
the Indian subcontinent, to the north in China and Northeast Asia,
and
<br>
to the east and south, in New Guinea and Australia. I am also
<br>
interested to find out whether it occurs in other parts of the
world, or
<br>
whether it unique to Southeast Asia. (A recent trip to Ethiopia
<br>
suggests that it might also be found there.)
<br>
<br>
Looking forward to your responses,
<br>
<br>
Thanks,
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST
Directrice de Recherche au C.N.R.S.
Linguistique Générale, Ouralienne et Nordique
CNRS-LACITO UMR 7107, Universités Paris 3 & Paris 4
29, rue Descartes. F-75005 PARIS
Tél.& Fax : 33.(0)1.43.25.08.46
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm">http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm</a>
</pre>
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