<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt 2.0cm;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=WordSection1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In Mauwake (Papuan TNG language, Papua New Guinea) the
traditional greetings with motion verbs are still used, although they are being
replaced by the “(good) morning” etc. calques from English. The
form of the greetings depends on whether the people receiving the greeting are
moving or stationary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“You are here” (sg. or pl., depending on the number
of people) is said to people who are staying somewhere instead of moving - and
the reply is “I am/we are here” ; and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“Where are you going?” or “You are going
(there)” is spoken to people who are walking towards or past the speaker
- and in the answer to the first one you either name the place or say e.g. “I’m
just walking”; to the second you reply with “(Yes), I’m going
here”. “There” and “here” refer to the place
where the person is at the moment. If it is clear that the addressee is coming
to where the speaker is, the greeting is “You are coming there” and
the reply “(Yes), I’m coming here”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Because there are so many possible forms, I’m only giving
the translations here. If you need the data as well, let me know and I’ll
send it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>By the way, Jocelyne Fernandez-Vest’s comment about Finnish
and some other European languages is worth noting: what is “going”
is not the person greeted but something else: life in general, and so the
question tends to be “How?” rather than “Where?” The
person gets marked with dative in German, and adessive in Finnish, not with nominative
as a subject should be marked. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FI style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Liisa Berghäll<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=FI style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Discussion
List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] <b>On Behalf Of </b>M.M.Jocelyne
Fernandez-Vest<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 02, 2011 7:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: query: Where are you going?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Le 02/06/11 15:45, Paolo Ramat a écrit : <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>French "comment vas-tu ?" and "comment ça
va?" , Germ. "wie geht's dir ?" are the most familiar
cases of movement verbs used in greetings (vs. Span. "còmo estàs?"
[accents are not correct in e-mail characters and the inverted interrogative
sign is also missing] It. "come stai?" , lit. 'how do you
stay?') <br>
<br>
----> Right, but it does not seem to be what David is looking for, as this
use is not limited any more to greetings.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>In modern French for instance, the verb <i>aller</i> has by
itself the meaning of "be in such and such a state", which is not
restricted to greetings : one can ask "Comment allez-vous?" and get
the answer "Je ne vais pas très bien" or, according to the register,
"Ça va pas fort", which shows that it is not a mere formal greeting
(different from "Ça va?", which is normally answered by a mere
repetition with a falling intonation "Ça va.", and not by "Non,
ça va pas" (verified in field experiments)). Besides, one can tell about a
third person "Il ne va pas très bien", and it has no connection with
a greeting. <br>
This meaning has been partly borrowed in Europe by
non-Indo-European languages, <br>
so that even in Finnish, where the polite personalized greeting does not use
the verb <i>mennä</i> "to go" (but rather a verb "be able
to" (<i>voida</i>) –<i>Miten voit ? or "</i>have
the strength to" (<i>jaksaa</i>) -<i>Miten jaksat? "</i>How are
you doing?), and the familiar greeting resorts to a verb of perception (<i>Mitä
kuuluu ?</i> "What-is-being heard?", and its idiomatic answer <i>-Ei
kuulu mitään</i> 'Nothing is heard", which is positive, although it can
sound rather abrupt to non native ears, <br>
one can also ask in a neutral unpersonal way (3rd person without a personal
pronoun) <i>-Miten menee?</i> "How is (it) going?", which, without a
more precise context ("How is it actually going with her
divorce?", etc.), will simply mean "How are you?". <br>
The same is observed in Northern Sami, where younger
speakers re-acquiring the language sometimes use the movement verb for asking
about the addressee's health, but the only idiomatical greeting is still using
the acoustic perception verb.<br>
But, in none of these languages - not even in Sami, which,
being one of the last oral languages of Europe, is (over) reputed to be
"exotic" – I can think of such a question using not only the
movement verb, but also an interrogative spatial word and requiring a spatial
indicator from the answerer.<br>
[which does not exclude though that such an exchange as
"Where are you going?" and the answer "Just walking" can be
encountered among Finns or Sami, reluctant to questioning, but, as we say in
French, that is "another pair of sleeves"].<br>
<br>
David's inquiry seems therefore to aim at a very specific
type of greeting, and it will be interesting to hear (read) whether equivalent
phrases are found in other parts of the world than in Southeast Asia.<br>
<br>
MMJFV<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Prof.Paolo Ramat <br>
Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS ) <br>
Direttore del Centro "Lingue d'Europa: tipologia, storia e
sociolinguistica" (LETiSS) <br>
Viale Lungo Ticino Sforza 56 <br>
27100 Pavia <br>
tel. ++390382375811 <br>
fax ++390382375899 <br>
-----Messaggio originale----- From: David Gil <br>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 1:24 PM <br>
To: <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>
<br>
Subject: query: Where are you going? <br>
<br>
Dear all, <br>
<br>
One of the most common greetings in many languages of mainland and <br>
insular Southeast Asia is a phrase whose literal meaning is "Where are <br>
you going?", eg. Thai /pai nai?/, Indonesian /mau ke mana?/
Crucially, <br>
it is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, any more than the <br>
English "How do you do?", and the most appropriate response will <br>
typically be something vague and non-committal, such as "just
walking" <br>
<br>
I am interested in mapping the geographical distribution of the "Where <br>
are you going?" greeting. I would thus be grateful for information
from <br>
as many languages as possible, answering the simple question: <br>
<br>
In language(s) that you are familiar with, is "Where are you going?"
(or <br>
an alternative "Where are you coming from?") used as a common
greeting, <br>
without necessarily being meant to be taken literally as an expression <br>
of interest in the direction of the addressee's movements? <br>
<br>
I am equally interested in negative data, asserting that your language <br>
does not have such a usage, as I am in data of a positive nature. <br>
<br>
In addition to confirming the presence of this greeting thoughout <br>
mainland and insular Southeast Asia, I am particularly interested in <br>
ascertaining the geographical boundaries of the greeting, to the west in <br>
the Indian subcontinent, to the north in China and Northeast Asia, and <br>
to the east and south, in New Guinea and Australia. I am also <br>
interested to find out whether it occurs in other parts of the world, or <br>
whether it unique to Southeast Asia. (A recent trip to Ethiopia <br>
suggests that it might also be found there.) <br>
<br>
Looking forward to your responses, <br>
<br>
Thanks, <br>
<br>
David <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Directrice de Recherche au C.N.R.S.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Linguistique Générale, Ouralienne et Nordique<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> CNRS-LACITO UMR 7107, Universités Paris 3 & Paris 4<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> 29, rue Descartes. F-75005 PARIS<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> Tél.& Fax : 33.(0)1.43.25.08.46<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre> <a
href="http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm">http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div>
</body>
</html>