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<DIV>Addendum:</DIV>
<DIV>Jocelyne’s remark is right: ‘(comment) ça va ?’ is not restricted to
greetings. However, this formula is used as greeting, too, and does not
obligatorily request an answer. </DIV>
<DIV>Extensions of (or restrictions to ?: see Plank’s remarks) greeting
formulas should be of interest to David. Incidentally, It. ‘(ciao,)come
va?’ is the exact counterpart of ‘ça va?’ and in most cases does not
request an answer from the hearer (as Engl. ‘how do you do ?’: an answer such as
‘I don’t feel very well’ is always possible, but not compulsory; you may
ignore the question and take it as bare greeting). </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV>Paolo</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Prof.Paolo Ramat<BR>Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori (IUSS
)<BR>Direttore del Centro "Lingue d'Europa: tipologia, storia e
sociolinguistica" (LETiSS)<BR>Viale Lungo Ticino Sforza 56<BR>27100
Pavia<BR>tel. ++390382375811<BR>fax ++390382375899</DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=m.m.jocelyne.fernandez-vest@vjf.cnrs.fr
href="mailto:m.m.jocelyne.fernandez-vest@vjf.cnrs.fr">M.M.Jocelyne
Fernandez-Vest</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=paoram@UNIPV.IT href="mailto:paoram@UNIPV.IT">Paolo
Ramat</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: query: Where are you going?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Le
02/06/11 15:45, Paolo Ramat a écrit :
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:605C28D69FFA4B58A68547F83EA19563@PaoloPC
type="cite">French "comment vas-tu ?" and "comment ça va?" , Germ. "wie
geht's dir ?" are the most familiar cases of movement verbs used in greetings
(vs. Span. "còmo estàs?" [accents are not correct in e-mail characters and the
inverted interrogative sign is also missing] It. "come stai?" , lit.
'how do you stay?') <BR><BR>----> Right, but it does not seem to be what
David is looking for, as this use is not limited any more to
greetings.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>In modern French for instance, the verb <I>aller</I>
has by itself the meaning of "be in such and such a state", which is not
restricted to greetings : one can ask "Comment allez-vous?" and get the answer
"Je ne vais pas très bien" or, according to the register, "Ça va pas fort",
which shows that it is not a mere formal greeting (different from "Ça va?",
which is normally answered by a mere repetition with a falling intonation "Ça
va.", and not by "Non, ça va pas" (verified in field experiments)). Besides, one
can tell about a third person "Il ne va pas très bien", and it has no connection
with a greeting. <BR> This meaning has been partly borrowed in
Europe by non-Indo-European languages, <BR>so that even in Finnish, where
the polite personalized greeting does not use the verb <I>mennä</I> "to go" (but
rather a verb "be able to" (<I>voida</I>) –<I>Miten voit ? or
"</I>have the strength to" (<I>jaksaa</I>) -<I>Miten jaksat? "</I>How are
you doing?), and the familiar greeting resorts to a verb of perception (<I>Mitä
kuuluu ?</I> "What-is-being heard?", and its idiomatic answer <I>-Ei kuulu
mitään</I> 'Nothing is heard", which is positive, although it can sound rather
abrupt to non native ears, <BR>one can also ask in a neutral unpersonal way (3rd
person without a personal pronoun) <I>-Miten menee?</I> "How is (it) going?",
which, without a more precise context ("How is it actually going with her
divorce?", etc.), will simply mean "How are you?". <BR> The
same is observed in Northern Sami, where younger speakers re-acquiring the
language sometimes use the movement verb for asking about the addressee's
health, but the only idiomatical greeting is still using the acoustic perception
verb.<BR> But, in none of these languages - not even in Sami,
which, being one of the last oral languages of Europe, is (over) reputed to be
"exotic" – I can think of such a question using not only the movement verb, but
also an interrogative spatial word and requiring a spatial indicator from the
answerer.<BR> [which does not exclude though that such an
exchange as "Where are you going?" and the answer "Just walking" can be
encountered among Finns or Sami, reluctant to questioning, but, as we say in
French, that is "another pair of sleeves"].<BR><BR> David's
inquiry seems therefore to aim at a very specific type of greeting, and it will
be interesting to hear (read) whether equivalent phrases are found in other
parts of the world than in Southeast Asia.<BR><BR> MMJFV<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:605C28D69FFA4B58A68547F83EA19563@PaoloPC
type="cite"><BR>Prof.Paolo Ramat <BR>Istituto Universitario di Studi Superiori
(IUSS ) <BR>Direttore del Centro "Lingue d'Europa: tipologia, storia e
sociolinguistica" (LETiSS) <BR>Viale Lungo Ticino Sforza 56 <BR>27100 Pavia
<BR>tel. ++390382375811 <BR>fax ++390382375899 <BR>-----Messaggio
originale----- From: David Gil <BR>Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 1:24 PM
<BR>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</A>
<BR>Subject: query: Where are you going? <BR><BR>Dear all, <BR><BR>One of the
most common greetings in many languages of mainland and <BR>insular Southeast
Asia is a phrase whose literal meaning is "Where are <BR>you going?", eg. Thai
/pai nai?/, Indonesian /mau ke mana?/ Crucially, <BR>it is not
necessarily meant to be taken literally, any more than the <BR>English "How do
you do?", and the most appropriate response will <BR>typically be something
vague and non-committal, such as "just walking" <BR><BR>I am interested in
mapping the geographical distribution of the "Where <BR>are you going?"
greeting. I would thus be grateful for information from <BR>as many
languages as possible, answering the simple question: <BR><BR>In language(s)
that you are familiar with, is "Where are you going?" (or <BR>an alternative
"Where are you coming from?") used as a common greeting, <BR>without
necessarily being meant to be taken literally as an expression <BR>of interest
in the direction of the addressee's movements? <BR><BR>I am equally interested
in negative data, asserting that your language <BR>does not have such a usage,
as I am in data of a positive nature. <BR><BR>In addition to confirming the
presence of this greeting thoughout <BR>mainland and insular Southeast Asia, I
am particularly interested in <BR>ascertaining the geographical boundaries of
the greeting, to the west in <BR>the Indian subcontinent, to the north in
China and Northeast Asia, and <BR>to the east and south, in New Guinea and
Australia. I am also <BR>interested to find out whether it occurs in
other parts of the world, or <BR>whether it unique to Southeast Asia. (A
recent trip to Ethiopia <BR>suggests that it might also be found there.)
<BR><BR>Looking forward to your responses, <BR><BR>Thanks, <BR><BR>David
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
M.M.Jocelyne FERNANDEZ-VEST
Directrice de Recherche au C.N.R.S.
Linguistique Générale, Ouralienne et Nordique
CNRS-LACITO UMR 7107, Universités Paris 3 & Paris 4
29, rue Descartes. F-75005 PARIS
Tél.& Fax : 33.(0)1.43.25.08.46
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm">http://lacito.vjf.cnrs.fr/membres/fernandez.htm</A>
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