<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Martin,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for this. Aside from my clumsy use of the "S-comp" phrase, I was purposely trying to avoid using Neg-raising, because, though it is a well-established term, I was trying to focus on the scope phenomena without a movement metaphor. Or standardized terminology (which I am not a big fan of). Also, I am mainly interested in non-European languages, which I don't believe Larry Horn or anyone else has done a survey of. </div><div><br></div><div>From the replies that I have received so far there seems to be considerable variation as to whether languages allow this or not (I will post a summary at some point).</div><div><br></div><div>These are excellent references, of course. Thanks for mentioning them.</div><div><br></div><div>-- Dan </div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 2, 2011, at 5:26 AM, Martin Haspelmath wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
The phenomenon that Dan Everett was trying to describe goes by the
well-established term "negative raising" (see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.glottopedia.de/index.php/Negative_raising">http://www.glottopedia.de/index.php/Negative_raising</a>).<br>
<br>
The most detailed discussion of it is perhaps still Larry Horn's
treatment in his "Natural history of negation". The only broadly
cross-linguistic discussion of the phenomenon that I am aware of is
ch. 9 of the following book:<br>
<br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="csl-bib-body" style="line-height: 1.35; padding-left:
2em; text-indent:-2em;">
<div class="csl-entry">Bernini, Giuliano & Paolo Ramat. 1996.
<i>Negative sentences in the languages of Europe: a typological
approach</i>. Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.</div>
<span class="Z3988" title="url_ver=Z39.88-2004&ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fzotero.org%3A2&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Negative%20sentences%20in%20the%20languages%20of%20Europe%3A%20a%20typological%20approach&rft.place=Berlin&rft.publisher=Mouton%20de%20Gruyter&rft.aufirst=Giuliano&rft.aulast=Bernini&rft.au=Giuliano%20Bernini&rft.au=Paolo%20Ramat&rft.date=1996"></span></div>
<br>
They looked at 45 languages of Europe and found very little
variation worth reporting. All seem to be more or less like English
or Hebrew in this regard.<br>
<br>
Martin<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/12/2011 23:04, David Gil wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4ED7F9E0.5010707@eva.mpg.de" type="cite">Dan
and all,
<br>
<br>
I'm suspect many other LINGTYP readers, and not just me, are not
sure what you mean by "an S-comp rule".
<br>
<br>
The colloquial varieties of Indonesian that I am familiar with do
not have an overt complementizer. And indeed, if you say
something like MARY NEG THINK JOHN SMART, this can not usually be
taken to mean "Mary thinks that John is not smart". Are you
suggesting that these two facts are related?
<br>
<br>
I have argued elsewhere that the Indonesian/English contrast is
one manifestation of a general tendency for Indonesian to be more
iconic, or "Behagelian", in its constituency than languages like
English. So I would also be very interested to learn how common
so-called "neg-raising" is cross-linguistically -- with or without
a complementizer.
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
<br>
PS rereading your query, I can add that Hebrew works like English.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I am interested in knowing whether a
certain pattern is more or less common. The question is whether
languages with an S-comp rule usually have the possibility of
negation switching scope across the matrix clause into the
subordinate clause. So for example, in English in examples like
"Mary doesn't think that John is smart" one meaning of this is
that "Mary thinks that John isn't smart." <br>
My question is whether English is rare or not. Even in English,
the features seems to be limited to epistemic verbs, like
"think".
<br>
<br>
So do readers of this list know of non-Indo European languages
with this type of negative scope possibility? If so, is it
limited to specific classes of verbs?
<br>
<br>
If you'd rather respond to me off-line, that is fine. I will
later post a summary if there are enough answers.
<br>
<br>
Thanks,
<br>
<br>
Dan
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Martin Haspelmath (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:haspelmath@eva.mpg.de">haspelmath@eva.mpg.de</a>)
Max-Planck-Institut fuer evolutionaere Anthropologie, Deutscher Platz 6
D-04103 Leipzig
Tel. (MPI) +49-341-3550 307, (priv.) +49-341-980 1616
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>