<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif; "><div>Suzanne - Chapter 18 of my 2007 grammar of Lao describes causative constructions similar to Thai with 'give' and 'make-give'.</div><div>Nick</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> André Müller <<a href="mailto:esperantist@GMAIL.COM">esperantist@GMAIL.COM</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> André Müller <<a href="mailto:esperantist@GMAIL.COM">esperantist@GMAIL.COM</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Thu, 29 Mar 2012 01:51:04 +0200<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>" <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: Query on analytic causative verbs<br></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Dear Suzanne,<br>You might also want to have a look at Thai, e.g. the grammar by David Smyth, or the "Thai Reference Grammar" by James Higbie & Snea Thinsan. In the latter there are some useful examples and explanations on pages 137-139, like for instance:<br><br>(1) ผมให้เขาไปซื้ของ<br>pʰǒm hâj kʰáw paj sɯ́ː kʰɔ̌ːŋ<br>1SG.MASC give 3.HUM go buy thing<br>'I had him go and buy something.'<br><br>There are some more examples of this in the book. A more common way to form causative constructions in Thai, though, is with a serial verb construction involving ทำให้ [tʰam hâj], literally "make give". There, ให้ [hâj] (give) usually introduces the beneficient, or maleficient, as in the following example (from a book I am reading):<br><br>(2) เรื่องราวเกี่ยวกับข้อมูลทำให้เราเวียนหัวได้เสมอ<br>rɯ̂ːaŋraːw kìːaw kàp kʰɔ̂ːmuːn tʰam hâj raw wiːan hǔːa dâːj sàmɤ̌ː<br>story be_concerned with data make give 1PL spin head can always<br>
'Stories about (these) data can always make our heads spin.'<br><br>I'm not sure if this last example might be useful for you. Anyways, any Thai grammar should have something about ให้ [hâj] 'to give', which can be used as an causativizer.<br><br><br>Best wishes,<br>- André Müller<br>(University of Leipzig)<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/3/28 Suzanne Kemmer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kemmer@rice.edu">kemmer@rice.edu</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi all,<br><br>
I have been queried about something I wrote a long time ago, and I did not<br>
document the facts well enough to easily find more examples of a particular kind.<br><br>
Does anyone know of any languages in which the causative verb in an analytic causative construction<br>
is a verb literally meaning 'give'? The example I came across in fieldwork and mentioned in my<br>
paper with Arie Verhagen is: Luo MIYO 'give' which is used as an analytic causative verb.<br><br>
The easiest way to sum up the analytic causative construction I am talking about<br>
is: [ Causer V(of causation) Causee V (Patient) ] .<br><br>
Examples include English 'I made her laugh' and the French FAIRE causative.<br><br>
Case marking/grammatical relations of the participants can vary across languages; word order can vary. The second verb - the<br>
one with the variable lexical content, which expresses a predicate of result in this construction -- may or may not be finite, and if non-finite may or may not have an infinitive marker.<br><br>
The range of meanings of the construction should include 'X made Y do something'/ 'X caused Y to do something'.<br><br>
The reason:<br>
I am aware that some languages do not sharply distinguish 'strict causation' from<br>
other force dynamic configurations like allowing or ordering; such meanings are often found with such constructions as well as 'strict causation'.<br>
'Strict causation', which I have often been told is the only interpretation of such constructions that is typologically relevant, means causation<br>
as logicians define it: The caused predicate follows the causing predicate (or its associated specific action) in time; and, supposedly, it would not have taken place had not X done something unspecified that is expressed schematically by the causing predicate.<br>
Since many linguists are most interested in this 'logical' causation, I wanted to make sure examples of the construction include the meaning 'make Y do'. Not just 'let Y do', 'order Y to do' , etc.<br><br>
Thanks for any help!<br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Suzanne Kemmer<br></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></span></body></html>