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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A quite interesting
issue, indeed! It is, in my opinion, not only terminological, but also morphologic~and~semantic,
we should say “morphosemantic”, going far beyond the simple choice of a label.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The example given by the
Latin grammarian Varro to illustrate the <i><span style='font-style:italic'>de
conatu</span></i> form(s) (the traditional term, as recalled by Martin K) was
the opposition between <i><span style='font-style:italic'>parire</span></i> “to
give birth” and <i><span style='font-style:italic'>parturire</span></i>” to be
about to give birth, with an implication that it is desired but painful”; <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>parturire</span></i> is a desiderative form of <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>parire</span></i>. Varro, however, does not say
explicitly that <i><span style='font-style:italic'>–tu-</span></i> is here a (former?)
suffix. But the desiderative meaning is linked to the frequentative (mentioned
alone, apparently, by Setälä about Finnish), which, as recalled by Johanna, may
be the source of Finnic irrealis (conditional, potential) suffixes, akin to the
“trying” or “wanting to” <i><span style='font-style:italic'>–el-</span></i> in the
Finnish dialects she refers to. What seems interesting in this Finnish suffix
is that it is a morpheme, not simply an element of a periphrasis, such as those
in Italian, French or English which Paolo mentions.Turkish <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>-se-</span></i>, also recalled by Paolo, is certainly
a morpheme, but not a conative one, since it is the Turkish mark of the
conditional, unless we consider that there is a semantic chain <conditional-potential-desiderative-frequentative>.
This confirms that the problem is not merely terminological. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Like the dialectal use of
Finnish -<i><span style='font-style:italic'>el-</span></i> , the suffix
referred to by Alec C with respect to Mongsen Ao also seems to be a morpheme. To
some extent, the same could be said of the elements cited by Alice with respect
to East and South-East Asian languages, including the famous Japanese (<i><span
style='font-style:italic'>miru</span></i>), Korean (<i><span style='font-style:
italic'>po</span></i>), Burmese <i><span style='font-style:italic'>Ci1</span></i></span></font><font
face=Times><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Times'> </span></font><font
face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Arial'>verbs “to see” or “to look”
when used with a “try to” meaning within verb-phrases. But this treatment implies
that we have arguments to prove that, in this use, <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>miru</span></i>, <i><span style='font-style:italic'>po</span></i>, <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Ci1</span></i></span></font><font face=Times><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Times'>, </span></font><font face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Arial'>and equivalent elements in Hmong and such TB
languages as Lahu, Lalo, (Pwo)Karen, etc., are not (no longer?) verbs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> The terms frustrative, attemptive,
experimentative, irresultative do not, of course, refer to the same realities within
the general notion of conative: the main difference seems to lie between situations
in which the attempt has partly succeeded and situations in which it has failed,
with certain (especially Slavic) languages stressing the unsuccessful effort by
a contrast between imperfective and perfective forms of verbs: along with Hannu’s
example with <i><span style='font-style:italic'>dolgo</span></i> “long”, there
is, in Russian, a striking (and recurrent) use of a reduplicated imperfective
to indicate that the action has repeatedly been attempted, but eventually failed;
this can even apply to non-human (hence supposedly non-volitional?!)
participants, as in <i><span style='font-style:italic'>sneg tajal, tajal, no ne
rastajal</span></i> “the snow was melting, melting, but did not melt”; cf. the
very frequent negative resultative (“cannot”) structure in Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese,
Khmer, Hmong and other South-East Asian languages, e.g. Mandarin <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>j</span></i></span></font><i><font
face="UT Greek Ancient Sans"><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"UT Greek Ancient Sans";
font-style:italic'>r</span></font></i><i><font face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB
style='font-family:Arial;font-style:italic'>-bù-zhù</span></font></i><font
face=Arial><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:Arial'> (remember-NEG-remain) “be
unable to remember”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Although I am aware that
this terminological inflation may have some drawbacks, it also has advantages if
we want to reach fine-grained descriptions. Consequently, please allow me to …add
a further term ! The meaning it expresses may indirectly shed light on the
conative semantic sphere, since it refers to the opposite situations, i.e. situations
where a negative event which could have resulted from a certain state of
affairs is avoided or averted. Hence the term “avertive”. I coined this term as
a suggestion to Tania Kuteva, who used, then, the longish expression “action
narrowly averted” to refer to a meaning “was on the verge of V-ing but did not
V”: Bulgarian <i><span style='font-style:italic'>štjax da</span></i> “wanted
that”, i.e. “nearly, almost”, Aranda (Australia) <i><span style='font-style:
italic'>tyeke</span></i>, Hua (Papua) <i><span style='font-style:italic'>hine</span></i>,
Huallaga Quechua <i><span style='font-style:italic'>paq</span></i>, etc. I took
over the notion of <i><span style='font-style:italic'>avertive</span></i> in <i><span
style='font-style:italic'>Adpositions</span></i> (“Oxford Studies in Typology
and Linguistic Theory”) Oxford University Press, 2010). If I may overload the
terminology (!), let me add that I suggested (<i><span style='font-style:italic'>Adpositions</span></i>
327) to distinguish <i><span style='font-style:italic'>avertive</span></i> from
<i><span style='font-style:italic'>aversitive</span></i>, the term I coin to
refer to the (rare and strange) “mental state adpositions” found in Cariban
language: the Tiriyó postposition <i><span style='font-style:italic'>aame(ke)</span></i>,
for instance, means “in hatred for”. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Best<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Claude<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:35.4pt'><font size=3 face=Arial><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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