<html><head><base href="x-msg://19/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">Dear Colleagues, </font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><br></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">I used 'conative' like Alec does, for the Burmese verb 'to look', when it is used as verbal modifier (serial verb construction) meaning 'try/test V'. </font></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- Burmese : <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>sa3<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>Ci1<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>Pa2</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>eat<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>look<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>POL</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>Please try it (when eating)</font></div></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><i>Conative</i> is however defined in French linguistics, as "un type de
formation verbale propre à exprimer l’effort" (See also Cinque
(1999 : 105) : « [the so-called ‘conative’ aspect] marks the
fact that a certain action may require some effort »).</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">It is also found in the literature with the meaning « the SoA is attempted, but not finished » (</font><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">Dik (1997/1 : 224</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">), which is similar to</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; "> '<i>attemptive</i>' (See Strauss (2002 :
144) ou « <i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">attempt </i>» by Bybee
& al (1994 : 264)).</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">So, I finally choose the term 'experimentative' for this special use of the verb LOOK, as its use as a verbal marker generally entails that the agent tests and does the action, which is not what is suggested by previous definitions.</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">The difference between experimentative and conative could be illustrated with the different uses of the verb 'essayer' (french) or 'try' (english).</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">CONATIVE: essayer de V / try to V => He tried to eat [but didn't succeed in eating]</span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">EXPERIMENTATIVE: - essayer N / try N<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>=> He tried a mango [means he eat it at least partially]</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">In the use of the verb 'LOOK' in Burmese and other Asian languages, and as suggested by Alec's gloss <i>test</i>, the SoA is done. When you EAT-LOOK something in Burmese, you definitely test the food!</font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; ">This grammaticalisation of the verb meaning 'see, look' is frequent in (South East) Asian languages : </span></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- Lahu, Lalo, Thnagkul-naga, Akha, Pwo-Karen (TB language) </font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- Hmong,</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- Japanese (miru)</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- Korean (colloquial) : Po-ta V</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">- (Japanese Sign language uses a manual hand shape similar to the one for 'look' with a different face expression).</font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><br></font></div></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">Best, </font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times"><br></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Times">Alice</font></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; "><font face="Helvetica" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">-------------------</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; "><font face="Helvetica" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">Alice Vittrant</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; ">Université d'Aix-Marseille / CNRS-LACITO</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; "><font face="Helvetica" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><a href="mailto:vittrant@vjf.cnrs.fr">vittrant@vjf.cnrs.fr</a></font></div><div><font face="Helvetica" style="font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; "><br></font></div></span></div>
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<div><div><div>Le 27 nov. 2012 à 03:14, Alexander Coupe a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dear Nigel,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I use ‘conative’ as a gloss for a verbal suffix that expresses a meaning of ‘try to VERB’ in Mongsen Ao. I suspect that it has grammaticalised from a verb root meaning ‘look’, given its semantics and identical phonological form. An alternative gloss for it could be ‘probative’, as it is also used with the meaning of ‘test, try out’. This ‘try/test’ meaning is distinct from that of another verbal suffix occurring in the same slot in the verb template and expressing the various meanings of ‘VERB ineffectually; VERB incorrectly; VERB incompletely; VERB repeatedly’, for which I use the term ‘frustrative.’ The latter might be used to describe the wounding of an animal when hunting when the intention was to kill it.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Coupe, A.R. 2007.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>A grammar of Mongsen Ao.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>Berlin & New York: Mouton de Gruyter<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Alec<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">---</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p></o:p></span></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="1200" style="width: 900pt; "><tbody><tr><td width="1" style="width: 1pt; padding-top: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "></td><td width="1199" style="width: 899pt; padding-top: 0cm; padding-right: 0cm; padding-bottom: 0cm; padding-left: 0cm; "><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Alexander R. Coupe, Ph.D.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Assistant Professor<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Division of Linguistics and Multilingual Studies<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nanyang Technological University<br>HSS-03-56, 14 Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 637332<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Tel: (65) 6592-1567<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: gray; ">GMT+8h</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Fax: (65) 6795-6525<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:arcoupe@ntu.edu.sg" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: black; ">arcoupe@ntu.edu.sg</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: red; ">|</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Web:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics/Pages/default.aspx" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics</span></a></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; ">Editor<br>Linguistics of the Tibeto-Burman Area<br><a href="http://stedt.berkeley.edu/ltba/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">http://stedt.berkeley.edu/ltba/</span></a><br><a href="mailto:ltba.email@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><span style="color: blue; ">ltba.email@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0cm; margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; 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