<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt">Good point. "I went mad" indicates a change of state, while "It went well" describes progress/motion.<br><div><span><br></span></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Hartmut Haberland <hartmut@ruc.dk><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" <LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> E. Bashir <ebashir@yahoo.com> <br> <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:03 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv132201259">
<div>
<div class="yiv132201259moz-cite-prefix">Isn't that something different from what Paul suggested?<br>
<br>
"I went mad" vs. "It went well". I think the subject ([+animate] vs. dummy <i>it</i>) is relevant.
<br>
<br>
Hartmut Haberland<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Den 31-01-2013 20:56, E. Bashir skrev:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:10pt;">
And, "it went beautifully", "it's going beautifully, nicely, rather badly, better than expected, ... "<br>
<br>
Elena Bashir<br>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2">
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<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Ian Maddieson <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv132201259moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:ianm@BERKELEY.EDU" target="_blank" href="mailto:ianm@BERKELEY.EDU">
<ianm@BERKELEY.EDU></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" class="yiv132201259moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">
LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:09 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<div id="yiv132201259">
<div>... but, on the other hand, "go well", "go swimmingly", and even "go viral"
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not sure the negativity inheres in "go"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ian</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 31 Jan 2013, at 09:10, Paul Hopper wrote:</div>
<br class="yiv132201259Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>An adjective complement of English 'go' has a negative force, e.g. go<br>
bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see<br>
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html], but not *cheerful,<br>
*prosperous, etc.<br>
<br>
- French pas?<br>
<br>
Paul Hopper<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear David,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">of the verb go -idd<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">(Penchoen, 1973: 63)<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">a.<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;">
</span>ism<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>
uryaz-aḏ<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>
ur-idd<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>ḥusa<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">this<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;">
</span>man-this<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;">
</span>NEG-go<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>
Husa<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">’This man’s name is not Husa’<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">b.<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;">
</span>ur-idd<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>
llə<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>b ɛaya<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"></span>NEG-go<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;">
</span>play<span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>
this<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="yiv132201259Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"></span>‘This is no game’<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">affirmative variants of the verbs but still.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Best wishes,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Ljuba<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">References<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. Ms.,<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">BLS 25.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">Undena Publications.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:DEVERETT@bentley.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:DEVERETT@bentley.edu">DEVERETT@bentley.edu</a>><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">In Pirahã, David, the relevant construction is:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">hi-ab-áo-b-á<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">many contexts to 'allgone.'<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">-- Dan<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hello David,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">In Breton, yes.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Aed eo toud<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Gone is3sg all<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">"it's all gone"<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the verb<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">"partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Best,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<blockquote type="cite">Steve<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Steve Hewitt<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">30 rue Charles Baudelaire<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">75012 PARIS<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">France<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:s.hewitt@unesco.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:s.hewitt@unesco.org">s.hewitt@unesco.org</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">+33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">+33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">+33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home<br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">From: Discussion List for ALT<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">[<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv132201259moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a>] On Behalf Of David Gil<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">To: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG" target="_blank" href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">
LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to express<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an entity<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">previously present.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">The reason behind this query is as follows. In Roon (an Austronesian<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">includes 'be in' and 'disappear'. (The logic behind this would seem to<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">longer here.) In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">also used to form negative imperatives. I am currently trying to<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">analysis.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Looking forward to any responses,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">David<br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">--<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">David Gil<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Department of Linguistics<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6,<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">D-04103 Leipzig, Germany<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">
gil@eva.mpg.de</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Webpage: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/%7Egil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Paul J. Hopper,<br>
Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,<br>
Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,<br>
Carnegie Mellon University,<br>
Pittsburgh, PA 15213,<br>
Tel. 412-683-1109,<br>
Fax 412-268-7989.<br>
<br>
Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,<br>
Department of Linguistics,<br>
University of Pittsburgh.<br>
<br>
Senior External Fellow,<br>
School of Linguistics and Literature,<br>
Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),<br>
Freiburg <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://i.br/">
i.Br</a>., Germany<br>
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</blockquote>
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<br>
<div><span class="yiv132201259Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,
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<div>Ian Maddieson</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Department of Linguistics</div>
<div>University of New Mexico</div>
<div>MSC03-2130</div>
<div>Albuquerque NM 87131-0001</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</span><br class="yiv132201259Apple-interchange-newline">
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