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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">A relevant paper discusses the use of ‘go’ in Thai for encoding negative outcomes.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="hangindent"><span lang="EN-AU" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Gandour, Jack. 1978a. On the deictic use of verbs of motion
<u>come</u> and <u>go</u> in Thai. <i>Anthropological Linguistics </i>20.9:381-394.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alec<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">---</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Alexander R. Coupe, Ph.D.
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HSS-03-56, 14 Nanyang Avenue, Singapore 637332 <br>
Tel: (65) 6592-1567 </span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:gray">GMT+8h</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
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<a href="mailto:arcoupe@ntu.edu.sg"><span style="color:black">arcoupe@ntu.edu.sg</span></a>
</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red">|</span><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Web:
<a href="http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics/Pages/default.aspx"><span style="color:blue">http://www.ntu.edu.sg/HSS/Linguistics</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Linguistics of the Tibeto-Burman Area<br>
<a href="http://stedt.berkeley.edu/ltba/"><span style="color:blue">http://stedt.berkeley.edu/ltba/</span></a><br>
<a href="mailto:ltba.email@gmail.com"><span style="color:blue">ltba.email@gmail.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Discussion List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nigel Vincent<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 1 February, 2013 7:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Italian has a passive periphrasis constructed with the verb
<i>andare</i> 'go' which can only be used with verbs which express a negative outcome. Thus:<br>
<br>
La casa è andata distrutta 'the house was (lit. went) destroyed'<br>
La lettera è andata perduta 'the letter got (went) lost'<br>
<br>
but not:<br>
*La casa è andata costruita 'the house went built'<br>
*La lettera è andata trovata 'the house went found'<br>
<br>
Nigel<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Professor Nigel Vincent, FBA<br>
Professor Emeritus of General & Romance Linguistics<br>
The University of Manchester<br>
<br>
Vice-President for Research & HE Policy, The British Academy<br>
<br>
Linguistics & English Language<br>
School of Arts, Languages and Cultures<br>
The University of Manchester<br>
Manchester M13 9PL<br>
UK<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/nigel-vincent/">http://www.llc.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/lel/staff/nigel-vincent/</a><br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Discussion List for ALT [LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] on behalf of "Ekkehard König" [koenig@ZEDAT.FU-BERLIN.DE]<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 8:23 PM<br>
To: LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG<br>
Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br>
<br>
I think that Paul Hopper's contribution was completely misunderstood<br>
(assuming he wanted to say what I would like to point out, based on the<br>
observations made by Eve Clark in an old edition of LANGUAGE):<br>
<br>
In English the verbs of motion COME and GO do not only express movement<br>
away (go) or towards a center of orientation, but also - in combination<br>
with adjectives (or adverbials)- a movement towards a positive evaluation<br>
(come) and a movement away from a positive evaluation and thus towards a<br>
negative evaluation (go):<br>
<br>
COME: alive, to one's senses, true, along, etc.<br>
GO: wild, mad, crazy, out of one's mind, hayfire, off<br>
<br>
But this is NEGATIVE evaluation and not NEGATION and thus probably not<br>
what David is looking for.<br>
<br>
Ekkehard<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> And, "it went beautifully", "it's going beautifully, nicely, rather badly,<br>
> better than expected, ... "<br>
><br>
> Elena Bashir<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>>________________________________<br>
>> From: Ian Maddieson <<a href="mailto:ianm@BERKELEY.EDU">ianm@BERKELEY.EDU</a>><br>
>>To: <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
>>Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:09 PM<br>
>>Subject: Re: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>... but, on the other hand, "go well", "go swimmingly", and even "go<br>
>> viral" <br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>I'm not sure the negativity inheres in "go"<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>Ian<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>On 31 Jan 2013, at 09:10, Paul Hopper wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>An adjective complement of English 'go' has a negative force, e.g. go<br>
>>>bad, bankrupt, missing, crazy, postal [see<br>
>>><a href="http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html">http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/159050.html</a>], but not *cheerful,<br>
>>>*prosperous, etc.<br>
>>><br>
>>>- French pas?<br>
>>><br>
>>>Paul Hopper<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>Dear David,<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity<br>
>>>><br>
>>>appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form<br>
>>>><br>
>>>of the verb go -idd<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>(Penchoen, 1973: 63)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>a.ismuryaz-aḏur-iddḥusa<br>
>>>><br>
>>>thisman-thisNEG-goHusa<br>
>>>><br>
>>>’This man’s name is not Husa’<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>b.ur-iddlləb ɛaya<br>
>>>><br>
>>>NEG-goplaythis<br>
>>>><br>
>>>‘This is no game’<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is<br>
>>>><br>
>>>relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been<br>
>>>><br>
>>>studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping<br>
>>>><br>
>>>suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb<br>
>>>><br>
>>>share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the<br>
>>>><br>
>>>affirmative variants of the verbs but still.<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>Best wishes,<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>Ljuba<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>References<br>
>>>><br>
>>>Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. Ms.,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>BLS 25.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>Undena Publications.<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <<a href="mailto:DEVERETT@bentley.edu">DEVERETT@bentley.edu</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>In Pirahã, David, the relevant construction is:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>hi-ab-áo-b-á<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>many contexts to 'allgone.'<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>-- Dan<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>Hello David,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>In Breton, yes.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Aed eo toud<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Gone is3sg all<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>"it's all gone"<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the verb<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>"partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Best,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Steve<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Steve Hewitt<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>30 rue Charles Baudelaire<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>75012 PARIS<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>France<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><a href="mailto:s.hewitt@unesco.org">s.hewitt@unesco.org</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>+33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>+33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>+33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>-----Original Message-----<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>From: Discussion List for ALT<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><a href="mailto:[mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG]">[mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG]</a> On Behalf Of David Gil<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>To: <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG">LINGTYP@LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Dear all,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to express<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an entity<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>previously present.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>The reason behind this query is as follows. In Roon (an Austronesian<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>includes 'be in' and 'disappear'. (The logic behind this would seem to<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>longer here.) In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>also used to form negative imperatives. I am currently trying to<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>analysis.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Looking forward to any responses,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>David<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>--<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>David Gil<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Department of Linguistics<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>D-04103 Leipzig, Germany<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Email: <a href="mailto:gil@eva.mpg.de">gil@eva.mpg.de</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>Webpage: <a href="http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/">http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>--<br>
>>>Paul J. Hopper,<br>
>>>Paul Mellon Distinguished Professor of Humanities Emeritus,<br>
>>>Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences,<br>
>>>Carnegie Mellon University,<br>
>>>Pittsburgh, PA 15213,<br>
>>>Tel. 412-683-1109,<br>
>>>Fax 412-268-7989.<br>
>>><br>
>>>Adjunct Professor of Linguistics,<br>
>>>Department of Linguistics,<br>
>>>University of Pittsburgh.<br>
>>><br>
>>>Senior External Fellow,<br>
>>>School of Linguistics and Literature,<br>
>>>Freiburg Institute for Advanced Studies (FRIAS),<br>
>>>Freiburg i.Br., Germany<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>>Ian Maddieson<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>Department of Linguistics<br>
>>University of New Mexico<br>
>>MSC03-2130<br>
>>Albuquerque NM 87131-0001<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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